2016 Colorado/Western Rally

[BA80]

Actually Bonz, if you take that Special with the FD swap and the 16" rear tire and run right next to a Standard with a stock FD and the 17" tire you'll see that they will be exactly the same RPM at any given speed in the same gear.

The 11 seconds was done on an E with the 17" tire therefore w/the taller gearing. Putting the 16" tire on the Special made it a little quicker. The Special was built as a custom street bike later, not as a tourer.

[Bonz]

Yeah you remind me of a good point. I've been in discussion after discussion over the years about the final drive swap. With that being said, the 80SG was no faster than the original 78E. With the changes to the cams and ignition curve the Special with the shorter gearing couldn't match the original. That's what I read from period tests from back in the day.

I owned an 80G for about a year, and yes it turned the same RPM as my special that has the FD swap. Speed-wise they were like two peas in a pod.

[BA80]

The 79 Special was pretty fast but it was basically the same engine as the 78 except the timing curve was changed. The 80 and up the cams were changed to a shorter duration and higher lift along with more timing mods. Gave the later engines more grunt at low RPM but it suffered HP loss over the entire range.

[Bonz]

I just never saw any period tests about the 79SF being any quicker than the 78E. The bikes that came out following the 78E were always "almost as fast", within a few 10ths.

[BA80]

If you ever rode a 78 or 79 and compare to the 80 you'll understand what I'm saying. The earlier engines have a whole different feel. The only difference in the 78 and 79 engines are the 78 timing starts out and advances quicker.

[motoman]

Actually Bonz, if you take that Special with the FD swap and the 16" rear tire and run right next to a Standard with a stock FD and the 17" tire you'll see that they will be exactly the same RPM at any given speed in the same gear.

The 11 seconds was done on an E with the 17" tire therefore w/the taller gearing. Putting the 16" tire on the Special made it a little quicker. The Special was built as a custom street bike later, not as a tourer.

Better known as the 'bar-hopper'.

[BA80]

Better known as the 'bar-hopper'.

Pretty much what it was designed for Brant. Pre-historic crotch rocket.

[motoman]

Pretty much what it was designed for Brant. Pre-historic crotch rocket.

Also, metering rod differences with the 80-81 Specials having the shorter, quicker tapered to a point as opposed to the 80-81 Standard having a longer more bluntly tapered metering rods sure affected the throttle response. I have the 81 Special carbs on my Venturer and sure notice the throttle being really touchy while cruising on the Interstate at 75-80mph. Hit a little dip in the pavement on the Interstate, throttle hand movment ever so slightly from the bike movement sure is noticed using the 81Special carbs as opposed to not noticing any difference using the original 81Standard(Venturer) carbs having the longer, more gradually tapered metering rods. Imagine that difference is what made the Standard(Venturer) the smoother, better touring bike.

[BA80]

HA! You know I never noticed there's different needles from Standard to Special. Now you're going to make me go look.

[motoman]

HA! You know I never noticed there's different needles from Standard to Special. Now you're going to make me go look.

Differences also marked as such on side of metering rods near the top. 80-81 Specials had 5GL16 metering rods and the 80-81 Standards had, 5NZsomething or other marked on sides near the top. Made a big difference as to response with just barely a throttle movement.

[BA80]

Differences also marked as such on side of metering rods near the top. 80-81 Specials had 5GL16 metering rods and the 80-81 Standards had, 5NZsomething or other marked on sides near the top. Made a big difference as to response with just barely a throttle movement.

I know where they are marked, just never realized there were different ones between the two.

[motoman]

Also Greg, the Venturer carbs, along with the longer, less tapered metering rods, alos having the factory oil cooler which restricted the air flow somewhat to center two cyls. had 115 main jets for center two cyls. and 112.5 main jets for outer two cyls. The 80-81 Specials having no oil cooler came stock with 110main jets across all four carbs. Also, oil capacity with filter change from factory manuals that came with both models was 4.2quarts for the Special and 4.4quarts for the Venturer(Standard) since it had the factory installed oil cooler. In other words, when on the centerstand, oil level when changed on the Venturer needs to just cover the top of oli level inspection window when at correct capacity. Guess that comes from age and buying the Venturer new some 35yrs. ago.

[motoman]

BTW, the XJ model came from factory with even different configured metering rods and 112.5 main jets across all four carbs.

[BA80]

Ahhhhhhh........you know what I just realized? You are talking about the late carbs, I have 79 carbs on my bike. According to the chart all the needles are the same across the board on them.

Everything is.

I have a Kirker oil cooler on my special w/SOFCA. It actually helps a bit around town and I LOVE the spin on filter.

[BA80]

BTW, the XJ model came from factory with even different configured metering rods and 112.5 main jets across all four carbs.

The XJ runs 47.5 pilots and a smaller pilot air jet too.