Removing Cams - Question

[Radioguylogs]

Thanks jetmechmarty and Deebs for your opinions.

I left out an important word in my my post. It was meant to say there are no kinks in the metal ring around the cylinder, but I left out the word "no". Shall I assume your opinions are still the same?

Seems the best alternatives at this point are Athena instead of OEM.

[Radioguylogs]

This looks pretty cool.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/16425933673...Bk9SR7qBhNG_Zw

Yeah, I was looking at that. I didn't check the dimernsions to confirm if it is the standard cylinder bore.

It's fascinating that it is reusable.

[DEEBS11]

Good heat transfer too. I never used one but they sure look good.

[jetmechmarty]

Regarding the copper gasket. I have a set for my XS650 and I wanted to go with it. It was too thin. It would raise compression and possibly advance valve timing enough to cause concern for valve piston contact. I did install the copper base gasket and a Vesrah head gasket.
That copper gasket is probably half the thickness of the OE gasket. If not, I’m a fan of the copper gasket. Otherwise, my first choice is a Vesrah head gasket, but I believe the Athena head gasket will be fine.

[bikerphil]

The standard bore size is 71.5mm and the Wiseco 1196 is 74.5mm. The 1179 Wiseco is 74.0

[Radioguylogs]

My last attempt was a Vesrah gasket and it looked the same as the original head gasket. It was really nice.

After receiving the bent OE gasket, I will follow the advice of my good friends here and find another choice.

I found a Yamaha OEM top end kit that includes a head gasket:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29795030497...&segname=11400
The shape of the head gasket in the picture looks like it is the revised head gasket that does not require the extra seal around the cam chain tunnel.

I took Deeb's advice and asked the seller to pack it well. They put the kit into a cardboard box, so it should a good chance to arrive undamaged.

I'm taking a motorhome trip with the wife next week, so my next update might not occur until after May 16.

[Radioguylogs]

I got the head back on, and the bike reassembled.

I started the bike today.

It was blissful at first, as I sync'ds the carbs.

After the bike ran for a several minutes, the nasty sounds came back again. I let it run long enough to sense the sounds seemed to be coming from the back part of the engine behind the jugs. My stethoscope indicated the starter seemed to be turning.

Hi Mike, JAT Do you think this particular sound may have something to do with the starter clutch ?

I had kept this thought in my mind since Schming posted it, but I didn't imagine there was any way to check it , and besides...I must have caused some problem with my valve job since that is what has changed.

So, I got the idea to pull the starter and access the gear on the starter clutch. Sure enough, it does not turn freely in one direction like I think it should.

I am simplifying my whole experience so I don't bore you to death.

Next step is remove the starter on one of my other bikes and confirm the starter clutch gear normally turns freely in one direction.

If the hypothesis is correct, it seems like I have to split the case??

[DEEBS11]

Over the past few years, my SF has become a mosquito fogger when it is started after sitting a month or two. The left exhaust smokes, but not the right. Last time I started it in August, it was so bad, oil dripped out the left exhaust drain hole. After it gets completely warmed up, the smoking stops.

So, I can't ignore it any longer. I need new valve seals.

I have procured a Vesrah gasket set and I am already disassembling the bike.

I have been reading ahead before I pull the head.

I have a question:

How do you remove the four bolts that hold the chain sprockets on the cams without bending any valves?

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Here is what the FSM says:




So, how do remove the four bolts when only two bolts are exposed, yet you have to rotate the engine to access the other two bolts.....but it says not to rotate the cams?!?
______________________________________________

Here what Clymer's says:



So how is one supposed to rotate the engine 180 degrees without rotating the cams? What good is rotating the engine if the cams don't rotate to access the other two bolts? [Really one should merely rotate the crankshaft, not the engine.]

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So, it seems the normal procedure is to remove two bolts at TDC, then rotate the crankshaft just enough past TDC to access the second two bolts and remove them? No valves will be bent?

Would it be better to go to TDC, note which two bolts are exposed (leaving them alone), then rotate the crank until you can remove the other two bolts. Finally go back to TDC and remove the two bolts that were originally exposed?

Your wisdom is appreciated.

Mike, was the starter clutch noise an issue before when it was running well (but just smoked)? Is it possible to remove the starter briefly and emergency kick-start it (with a rag over the hole) to see if the noise goes away?

[DEEBS11]

Another question: Have you been inside the clutch side of the motor recently during this repair?

[Radioguylogs]

Mike, was the starter clutch noise an issue before when it was running well (but just smoked)? Is it possible to remove the starter briefly and emergency kick-start it (with a rag over the hole) to see if the noise goes away?

There were no issues with the starter clutch before the latest surgery. I did not remove the clutch cover on the RH side of the engine.

I don't have a kick starter, but maybe I could bump start it. However, I wouldn't put a rag over the hole because I suspect it will be sucked in within an instant.

Thanks for your help.

[DEEBS11]

Mike, when the pistons come down they pressurized the crankcase which comes out of the breather tube into the airbox (if equipped. Mine is vented down because of pod filters). The missing starter hole will let out a considerable amount of oil mist but it's harmless to the engine. Low chance of a rag getting sucked in but I would not stuff it in there because the teeth of the starter gear may grab it. The test should only take a minute or so. I would lay a big sheet of cardboard underneath to catch any drippings although it may not drip at all. Bump starting will be a challenge but since the starter clutch is now not attached to anything, even though it may be locked up the noise should go away.


Maybe some duct tape over the hole with a rag ready to wipe up any oil.

[Radioguylogs]

(1) the teeth of the starter gear may grab it.

(2) Maybe some duct tape over the hole with a rag ready to wipe up any oil.

Those were my thoughts.

I believe your suggestion is to find out if the sound goes away. If it does, that means the rotating starter is the source of the noise...and therefore, a stuck starter clutch would be confirmed.

I was wondering if I peeked into that starter hole while the engine was running, I could confirm the starter interface gear (between the starter clutch and the starter) was moving.....maybe even touch the side of the gear with an object and see if it is firmly powered.

It seems like I could achieve a similar conclusion if I pull the starter on one of my other bikes and confirm that gear moves clockwise freely in a normal bike.

BTW, One might wonder why this issue would suddenly be a problem if it wasn't related to my recent repair work. The only thing I can think is that I ran the starter quite a bit (without spark plugs) to do compression checks.