Current gas prices?

[mro]

fuel cell tech

not brand new tech.
But don't think it will come to market anytime soon.

Is way to easy to use as an explosive device and currently the researchers have been unable to come up with a "fool proof" method of allowing for general use.

Would like to see nuke plants tho. Despite the waste problem, it's the cleanest/cheapest way to generate electricity.



mro

[Pain]

There is a demo program with Fuel Cells going on in Washing DC right now. Haven't heard anyting recently about it.

I did hear Bush on the TV, saying he would help reduce gas prices by reducing the clean air act and give some more money to the oil companies. Those wacky Democrates said they wanted to eliminate the Federal Gas Tax, and make the money up by reducing tax breaks given to the oil compnies, the commies.

I walk to work.

[mro]

and make the money up by reducing tax breaks given to the oil compnies

Wonder where they get the money to pay there taxes?



mro

[xs650mike]

Fuel cells and hydrogen fuel can work well but are held back by the fact that it takes more energy to produce the necessary hydrogen than the hydrogen will produce so what's the point. A breakthrough is needed.

Electric cars aren't really a solution to pollution if you're going to be using electricity from coal-fired power plants. Know a guy in Silver City, Nevada whose whole house is completely off the grid...all solar and wind power generation. He built an electric car out of an old Fiat Bertone roadster. I have ridden in it and the thing is an absolute rocket. Tremendous torque from zero rpm so he just leaves the tranny in 2nd gear and never shifts it. No clutch necessary. He has no idea how fast it will go but says it was pulling strong at 105 mph. 50 mile out and back range at normal highway speeds, recharge by solar and wind. This car makes all the piss ant electric and hybrid things I've heard about look iike a joke. If he can do it with fairly low-tech means, I don't understand why some major automaker can't do better than they've done. Don't think there's a will there yet.

[John]

Perhaps Exxon, and the other majors, are paying the automakers not to make there produtcs too efficient. We wouldn't want those poor, fat slob CEO a$$holes to to have to declare bankruptcynow, would we? Remember what busines our illustrious leaders are from. Poor Exxon, only made $8.7 Billion profit last quarter. They didn't even make Wall St. predictions. WAAAA! And their former CEO had to take a $400 million retirement package. Somethin' jus ain't f'n rite!

[BLUEJEEPLAB]

2.48 in the Jeep this morning. Filled it for less than 2 twenties, great, I can still EAT!!!

[mro]

Filled my GMC 3500 van for a delivery to Sacramento this morning. $91.06 for 29 gallons. Still had a 4 gallons in the tank. Almost empty now Got to go to Sonoma tomorrow so another 90+ to be burned



mro

[xs650mike]

$90+ fillups

This means across the board inflation since businesses will have to raise prices to pay their fuel bills. Looks like Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan wasn't such a genius after all. Guy they got now said he will continue Greenspan's policies, whatever they were. Everytime that guy talked I got the feeling I was being jived big time...Let's see, everytime it looked like a price inflation Greenspan would raise interest rates...they got us coming and going.

Actually, doesn't the Federal Reserve just print more money any time it feels like it? Doesn't that just make the money worth less and less?...The very definition of inflation...

I am old enough to remember when United States coinage was actually made out of silver. Dollar bills used to have these words printed on them, "The Treasury of the United States of America will pay to bearer on demand one dollar in silver." These were called "Silver Certificates". Then suddenly we had "Federal Reserve Notes" which were not redeemable in silver. But on the back these words were added that had not heretofore been there, "In God We Trust". Hey folks, our currency which used to be backed by silver is now supposedly backed by God. I don't think that God recognizes money as being worth anything, certainly not credit in Heaven.

[mro]

Up, Up and Away (money)

I've got both gold and silver Certificates.
Plus a bunch of silver coins and a gallon whisky bottle of wheat pennies.

Not worth much, but maybe my great, great........ kids might get something out of em.


mro

have raised prices for service calls and P&D. gas is not the only thing to go up lately, insurances has gone up about 20% in the last 6 months and in 25 years have not had a claim

[pggg]

These government bastards down here had an all time - record high slush fund last year brimming over and spilling nowhere but into their own bloody pockets. And BTW the 'trickle down effect' (the more we pay ourselves, the better off everyone will become)
is all B.S.

[xs650mike]

Price yesterday for 87 octane at Costco (members only) in Santa Rosa, $3.119, 91 octane, $3.399...fillup on my van (87) cost $61.30. Big line at the Costco pumps. Today in Kelseyville, unbranded 87 @ $3.399/gallon.

[MAXIMAN]

I guess what amazes me is the FACT that every one is bitching about the supposed insane high price of gas...

Yet the demand for gasoline today is at an all time high.

People are filling up thier 40 gallon tanks on their Excursions as fast as the pump can move it.

Took a vacation last week. Every car on the road with the exception of maybe 1 or 2% were carrying only one passenger. Of all the cars on the road I would estimate ...fully...60% were big SUV and pick up trucks. Another 20% were large sedans and such. Maybe ...just maybe 20% were samll cars and sub-compacts.

Apparently the price isn't high enough yet. When it gets high enough you can bet your ass people will stop driving these gas guzzlers for commuters and for fun. I can not tell you how many people I know that commute 100 miles per day in a Ford Expedition of Chevy Tahoe instead of a nerdy but effective Toyota Echo.

A few questions:

If the big bad oil companies have total control over the price of gasoline...why in the hell did they wait so long to jack the price up?

Why would they have kept prices low for 15 years ...just to suddenly drive them up today?

And if...just if they have such demonic control over the price of a free market commodity...namely gasoline...then why in the name of enterprise would they "gouge" you at the pump last summer for $3...only to let it fall back to $2 in November?

Last but not least. Would someone please define "profiteering"? The last time I looked...the whole point of being in business is to make a profit. There is no such thing as an "insane" profit or "obscene" profit. Just profit. When Google has a record breaking "profiteering" year you don't hear people calling that insane or immoral. When Nike Sportswear turns a 20% ROI people don't cry price gouging. When General Motors raises the price of it's products 400% over a 25 year period people don't SCREAM price fixing. Yet the price of gasoline has barely doubled since 1981.

All this rhetoric of "price gouging", price fixing, and windfall profits is nothing more than wealth envy plain and simple. Some of you people are sounding like the socialists sickos ...Ted Kennedy...Nancy Pelosi...Harry Reid...shall I go on?

I tell ya what...let's do it. That will solve all the energy problems of this nation...LET'S DO IT!!! Let's punish the living **** out of greedy oil companies. Let's take all their profits so they can't re-invest in the exploration efforts to find new sources. Let's point a gun at their head and take their assets via force...by simply nationalizing the petroleum industry and giving it to the FEDERAL GOVERNEMENT! Be honest that's really what a lot of you want!

And boy wouldn't that be the solution...let Uncle Sam produce your energy. By the time the bueuracrats (sp) got through with you you'd be wishing for the good old days when gasoline was $4 per gallon.

Good Day Gentlemen.

Cody Griffin

[xs650mike]

Yukon Denials?

Well people have complained about Nike Cody. Me, I don't complain at all about them, I just don't buy their overpriced, non-durable products. I don't have to, I buy Justin and Chippewa footwear, value for money. I do have to buy gasoline and there is no choice there, it is all the same and priced the same too, within a very few cents.

As far as people's driving habits changing, they are. Big surge in motorcycle and scooter sales. Just read an article on the financial page about how people are driving a lot less than they were just a couple of months ago. Sure there are still those who are driving around in 4 wheel drives with lift kits but that is changing. I'm seeing more hybrid cars on the road than ever before, a sudden increase. Of course gasoline is way more expensive here than it is where you live, but when gasoline starts costing there what it does here, I guarantee you will see changes there too. Or is everybody rich over in your neck of the woods? I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who still commutes in a big SUV or pickup. I still see quite a few of those Yukon Denials on the road though.

When oil companies talk about their profits to the popular press and general public they always use the percentage of sales which is admittedly lower than most industries. When they talk to Wall Street and their stockholders they talk return on capital investment which is higher than any other industry you can name. They are making money hand over fist so don't expect me, or anyone else who doesn't own oil company stock, to sympathize with them when they complain that they are making less profit than other industries. That is a pure line of malarkey. We all know that they just made all time record profits for the 3rd quarter running. No one is advocating that they lose money, or give us free gas, just that they take a little less profit for the good of the country and the economy.

When people talk about the high cost of today's vehicles as compared to today's gasoline they convieniently ignore the fact that today's vehicles are a whole different animal than yesterday's vehicles. Compare a '79 XS11 with a new literbike, the new bike is so much more complex that it boggles the mind. Same with autos. Much of this is driven by the demands of the market. Still, automakers in this country actually seem to be losing money. Are people clamoring for gasoline with ever more complex systems imbedded in it? No. The oil companies have been making gasoline in the same old refineries that they bought and paid for long ago. True the formulations are different than they used to be but the product is basically the same. And, unlike the automakers, they are making record profits.

All the raving about pinko commie socialist enviromental wackos does nothing to further your argument. I certainly don't blame you for having a different view of this thing than I do. You are in the energy industry. It is only natural for you to view things from your perspective and your own self-interest. Just because some people have a different view than you doesn't make them pinko commie socialist enviromental wackos, they are merely viewing things from a different side with a different self-interest. Don't take it personally, it's just about money and whose pockets its flowing out of or into. You once took me to task for "patronizing" you, meanwhile patronizing me to the max. Now you're at it again patronizing us all. I know, we just don't understand because we aren't insiders like you are. We can and do read the financial section of our newspapers and the truth about the oil companies' bottom lines can be read there every day.

[MAXIMAN]

That's right Mike. But when people start talking about excess profits they are full crap. And that's what makes them sound like...(in your words) "pinko commie socialist enviromental wackos"...in mine just socialists.

As far as advancing my cause...hmmm...I'm so sick of all the bitching about gas prices I don't even care any more.

I vividly recall when gasoline was a $1.50 a few years ago and the price would vary by 5 to 7 cents. Dear lord you would've thought the world was coming to an end. Everytime gas went up a nickle people would scream bloody murder. So it really doesn't matter what the cost of gasoline is people are going to complain.

I suppose you believe it should be sold to you at a susidized price...or provided FREE. Just like most peoplethink their medical care should be provided by "daddy" ...the US government.

When you say: "When people talk about the high cost of today's vehicles as compared to today's gasoline they convieniently ignore the fact that today's vehicles are a whole different animal than yesterday's vehicles. " The same principal applies to gas Mike.

Yester-year there was only one blend of gasoline. But now every city under God's sun has to have there special little blend. Now there are 17 seperate blends in the nation for enviromental reasons. Here's the absurdity of reality...8 of those blends are just for one state alone...CALIFORNIA.

But I noticed you never got to the heart of the matter...you never answered the questions I posed. Probably because ya never read 'em.

[BLUEJEEPLAB]

Count me in Maximan's court. Business is in business because people buy their product. Supply and Demand is the basic law of economics and our demand is greater than the supply. If we want to keep up our demand, then we pay more, if we don't want to pay the price, reduce your consumption. Simpler said than done, but we need to start making the move from the Gas Swilling SUVs and sports sedans we all know and love to smaller commuter oriented cars, mass transit and dare I say it, walking the shorter distances we know drive.

As to increasing the supply, the same demagogues (Pelosi, Kennedy and Company) demanding the near nationalization of the petroleum industry are the same ones preventing exploration and drilling for new sources.

Yes I said Near Nationalization, where do you think these proposed fines and taxes are going to go, our back pockets? Nope, they are just a new source of our money to those who think of your paycheck as Government money and so graciously let you keep 60% of it.

Do we really want a Body that came up with the $600 hammer to run the oil industry? Or even govern it? We can govern it with our spending habits.