My Battery is toast

[madmax-im]

with all the attn on my XS11...I have virtually ignored the battery in my ST1100...so now that i have the new float charger i decided to get into the ST and pulled out the battery for the very first time...I've only had this bike 4 yrs and never have i put a charge on it...I never even knew if it was a sealed battery or not...Well i go to check its voltage and as it was sitiing it showed 12.7 volts...I put the tender on and within a few mins. the green light was blinking and the charger was in maintainence mode. This battery is Made by YUASA (USA) and it looks to be the original battery which would make it 13 yrs old!!!

[kflyboy]

battery

$70 sounds like a good buy. What model battery is it and how many CCA.

Dont remember the specs, but it is noticably heavier, sealed and maint. free. Fired the bike right up at 10 deg. when the Siberian Express cold front came through Colorado last month after sitting in the carport for a week. I was impressed. Oreilly should be able to get those specs. for you. BTW the temps got to -20 for a few nights. THAT IS COLD!!!!!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Marty,

I just searched Oreilly's, their brand is SuperStart( They did have a DEKA!).
The Model # that's similar to ours is the ETX-18L with 340 CCA's, and it sells/list for $97.99 plus core! A smaller one, ETX-15 for $79 only has 220 CCA's. It could have been an instore SALE??

T.C.

Okay, a "NET" Search revealed this info from www.bestbatterytips.com

Super start batteries are sold at O’reilly Auto Parts, and CSK Auto. O’reilly Auto Parts and CSK Auto combined to become the third largest auto parts store chain in United States. Falling under the O’reilly umbrella is Checker Auto Parts, Schuck’s Auto Supply, Kragen Auto Parts, and Murray’s Discount Auto Store. The battery of choice at O’reilly Auto Parts, and CSK Auto stores is a Super Start Battery. Super Start batteries are manufactured by East Penn Manufacturing. East Penn is well know for their Dependable Deka battery brand. East Penn manufacturing is located in Lyon Station Pennsylvania, and have been manufacturing batteries sense 1946. The Super Start Premium battery has a 12 month free replacement and a 60 month pro rate warranty. The Super Start Extreme battery offers 3 year free replacement and 84 month pro rate warranty. The Super Start Premium battery warranty is nothing to get excited about, however the Super Start Extreme is a very industry competitive battery warranty.

[jetmechmarty]

$70 sounds like a good buy. What model battery is it and how many CCA.

[kflyboy]

battery

so am looking for a sealed gel type...looked in the archives but the information there is out of date...so whats a good brand of sealed battery and how cheap can i get it for? TIA...

I went to O'reilly auto parts and bought an AGM battery. Maint. free. About $70. Much stronger than original.

[madmax-im]

I'm quite happy with my new battery,which BTW is made by Deka. Didnt say so in the ad but when it arrived it was in a box with their logo on it. Battery mart got it to me in less than a week and free delivery too....and a battery under 100 bucks...
TC...from what I have read the Scorpions are doing well with the ST-owners so I would expect you to have a similar experiences...

[b.walker5]

Or go inside and have some eggnog.

CZ

Best advice so far.... The battery's lunched TC. Throw it and be happy with your new one.

[CaptonZap]

Hey TC,
You are in a position to try some more experiments with the bad battery.
Put it back on the sulfate busting charger, and let it get up to voltage again. When it is up to blink voltage, take it off and hook a headlight bulb up to it. Monitor the voltage and time to get down to 12 volts. Put it back on the charger and repeat the process a time or two, and see if the time to get down to 12 volts increases. If it does, keep doing the charge /discharge cycle until you think it might be salvageable, or totally cooked.
Or go inside and have some eggnog.

CZ

[natemoen]

There is always the old timer "cook the sh!t out of it for an hour" battery rejuvenation method.

Aka: high amp charge for an hour.

Never seen it work but I know some old timers that swear by it!

[TopCatGr58]

Update

Okay,

Well it took about a week for the pulse charger to finally finish charging and give the green ready light. I then put it on the load tester, and it lasted a couple of seconds, but then dived into the WEAK/BAD zone, and the voltage dropped severely as well. SO....it looks like I killed it when it sat for over a month fully drained, and probably irreversibly sulphated plates! I may play with it some more, running it on my larger 6 AMP charger a few cycles and see, but I'm not holding my breath on this one! 3 years about normal for me with a WET lead acid battery.

SO....Unlike MadMaxim/BNE, I'm a bit more of a gambler with regards to trying the SCORPION branded battery. I did a search and found a thread from 2010 from a guy on the ST forum, and he's had a smaller Scorpion battery installed and working for 3 years now with no problems, and several others also posted that they bought/installed Scorpions as well with no problems....except for one guy, but his was a faulty battery and hadn't gone thru the process to get a warranty exchange. The SCORPION company warranties their own stuff....not just leaving it to the dealer to handle it. Batterystuff.com will still handle the warranty process, but the battery actually gets returned to Scorpion for analysis and such. They(Scorpion) speak a good game/Customer Service and quality, not just providing a CHEAPLY PRICED product...they say they know that good word of mouth regarding both quality of their product and service is what will get folks to come back for repeat business.

So...I pulled the trigger and ordered one today, probably won't arrive until the weekend. So...I'll keep this thread in mind, and just like Steve on the ST site, I'll post periodic updates to it as part of a Product Review experience and such! We know that many/most of us are cheap bastards and if we can get "QUALITY and Durabilty" from a lesser priced product, we want it.

T.C.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey CZ,

I read about EDTA, but it just totally neutralizes the sulphate to the point that it can't be turned back into Lead and Sulfuric Acid!

Just an update, after a days worth of Pulse charging, I did a quick LOAD TEST, and it failed miserably! Had a voltage meter on it at the same time, and it dropped to like 7 volts! But it had only been 1 day, so I put it back on the Pulse Charger...it's still showing the SOLID RED charging light.. book says it will blink when it's fully charged and in FLOAT mode! Another thing is that I can see bubbles forming in all of the cells. I felt the case and it's "WARM"....not hot, I can easily hold my hands on it without any sense of needing to remove them burn feeling, so the little 1.3 amp PULSE charger is doing SOMETHING, will check it in a few days for both voltage levels and another LOAD test.

T.C.

[CaptonZap]

I wish I had a HF ultrasonic cleaner, I would put the battery in that and see if it could help break up the crystals mechanically??


T.C.

Interesting concept!
I don't know if the ultrasonic pulses would transfer through the case and still be effective.
There are some chemical additives that are used to overcome sulfation.
EDTA comes to mind.
http://leadacidbatterydesulfation.yu...l#.UpqXaVnn-00
As with most things, there are pros and cons with that.
There was another one that I can't think of at the moment. A search on Bing might find something else.
Then there is the 60 watt lightbulb charger, which is supposed to break down sulfate.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/elect/3dollarbattggn.htm

Keep us posted.

CZ

[TopCatGr58]

I wish I had a HF ultrasonic cleaner, I would put the battery in that and see if it could help break up the crystals mechanically??

I tested the voltage briefly on the battery, and it was above 12....like 12.18, but as I had the dig meter on it, the voltage started dropping 0.01 volt every 15 seconds or so! ( But it's still early in the process..remember folks this will be a several weeks test!!! And I will of course put it both on my load tester as well as see if it has enough oomph to turn the engine over and also drive the ignition system to start!?

But as stated, even if this battery can't be saved, this advanced pulse charger/maintainer will help me in keeping the NEXT one in much better condition during the off seasons....and YES I will be fixing that switch with a warning LIGHT to help me remember IF I've left it in the energized position. I'm using the same unswitched power source because it's also what provides the power to my AUX lights.

T.C.

[CaptonZap]

Some of you will also remember that I'm using the Mini-Race Alternator, it does put out a lot more power than the OEM REG/RECT/ALT combo, but I've got a voltmeter on it, and it doesn't go above 14 or so volts while riding, so I don't think it's getting OVERCHARGED while riding, just that the air has been quite dry around here, and it's just slowly evaporated over the last 2 months that it's been sitting....it's NOT been on a trickle/float charger!

SO....keeping the battery as fully charged as possible converts the mild layers of lead sulphate back into LEAD and sulfuric acid, but can consume some water when the charging goes too far/overcharge...there's no more sulphate to convert, so it then turns to ELECTROLYSIS of the water and that's when it can "boil" away along with releasing hydrogen and oxygen gasses.

So....float charging does NOT damage the batteries provided it's enough current to truly keep the battery fully charged, provided it doesn't go into GASSING mode which then runs the electrolyte DRY/below the plate levels.

T.C.

That may be your problem. You might want to find a way to reduce the voltage at which your alternator reduces it's output. Is the regulator built in?
14 volts period, is what I would consider the maximum that should be applied to these batteries, especially for hours on end. (Read 'long trips').

Car size batteries can absorb more overcharging than can bike size, and your auto alternator might be using that as a basis for it's output setting. Ford Model A's didn't use a regulator, they adjusted the generator output to 5 amps or so, and under normal driving usage, that kept the battery charged, and you were expected to check the water periodically. If you constantly made long trips, you were expected to reduce the amp output of the generator, to keep the input/output balance even.

Great write up, it will be interesting to get the data.


CZ

[b.walker5]

Correct TC, float chargers do not harm batteries. They are, in fact, good for batteries, and you're also correct that you may not be able to fully resurrect your battery. The entire theory around pulse charging is based on a flawed assumption that lead sulphate crystals vibrate at 3.26hz, and that introducing a harmonic pulse at that frequency will break the crystals down. Problem with that theory is that Resonance is derived from Inductance and Capacitance, and these values change as the battery voltage changes.