My Battery is toast

[motoman]

For those that say that a battery tender is no good, i suspect theyve had a bad experience, or know someone that has, from a cheap one. Theyre not all created equal, and the price reflects that. Pay Peanuts and youll get Monkeys.



Same applies to batteries. Not to say the higher priced name brand won't short cells prematurely, as I've had it happen to a couple over a few decades. But there ARE different quality levels internally from manufaturer to manufacturer(IIRC, only five worldwide), AND those same manufacturers also produce them for others lesser known cheaper name brands, according to that sellers specs.

Lead acid wet cell batteries like to be 'used' not shelved. They are also only as good as many times as they will 'take' a charge. I attribute the 'used' part to the longgivity of the Exide in my ST having the factory digital clock that is on all the time. Nine years, and is just now showing signs of cranking the starter a bit slow when bike sets for several months. Over those years, I had that battery on a 1.5amp one time due to bike setting for long periods of time.

The Interstate in the XS is on its 4th year, and re-charged one time so far due to bike setting in garage for almost a year not ridden. It has nothing hooked up 'using' the battery while setting. The previous Interstate battery started showing tell-tale signs of an upcoming cell short/failure at 5yrs. Even though it load tested holding steady at 10.5V for the 30sec. specified amp load, likelyhood of it leaving me roadside 200mi. from nowhere were fair to good.

The AGM's have become popular in several replacement applications. They are still a lead-acid wet cell battery. The absorbant glass mat has little to do with vibration, and EVERYTHING to due with electron flow, slowing lower level of flow down.

Overall, looks like the wet cell lead acid batteries that get 'used' regularly, whether it be from starting and riding the bike or a portion of an amp draw from an accessory seem to have a longer life.

[CaptonZap]

Well said, Brian

When I was in economy mode, I took a 1 amp charger and hooked it to a 24 hour timer, and adjusted the "time on" period so as to maintain about 13 volts. The problem was that if the power went off, (someone tripped on the extension cord) and the timer was on charge, the battery was drained by backflow through the Harbor freight charger.
After that, I bit the bullet and bought a Battery Minder, (not a Battery Tender) and have used them (I bought more) on anything that doesn't get used a lot.
If you double the life of the battery, you have paid for the charger.

CZ

[b.walker5]

It doesnt matter squat what brand or type you prefer, battery longevity is down to maintenance. Dont let them go completely flat. If you have a wet cell, keep it topped up, and keep it charged. If you have a AGM, (gell cell to most, even though theyre different), keep it charged. High current chargers will kill a battery in no time, if they are constantly used. Slow chargers, at less than 5 amps, are best, and one that automatically switches to trickle mode when at 80% of full charges is best. AGM does seem to be better suited to bikes, due to less likelyhood of plates being vibrated to bits inside the battery.

For those that say that a battery tender is no good, i suspect theyve had a bad experience, or know someone that has, from a cheap one. Theyre not all created equal, and the price reflects that. Pay Peanuts and youll get Monkeys.

A decent charger will charge at full current, while constantly monitoring the voltage, and switch to low current (mA) at around 80% percent of full capacity, and switch off entirely at 100% charge. If left on, an decent one will monitor the voltage continuously and top up as when required.

Ive had a tender on all my little used batteries for at least the last 10 years, and only had to replace one of them, and that was because it was about 5 years old before i bought the tender. (nothing lasts forever). We also have a multitude of 7 a/h gel cells used for various electric fence controllers around the ponderosa. They get changed out every sunday, and left on the tender for the week. Some of those batteries are now getting to 8 years old with no sign of trouble.

Spend what you want on a battery, brand is mostly irrelevant, and MAINTAIN it. It will last for years. Spend megabucks on the so called 'best' battery and DONT maintain it, and you'll be sorely disappointed in the not too distant future.

[madmax-im]

I got nuthin'... except I just woke up and thought it sounded good with a little butter and strawberry jelly?

Thanks Bob...Tod...smartazz

[trbig]

My Battery is toast

I got nuthin'... except I just woke up and thought it sounded good with a little butter and strawberry jelly?

[XJOK2PLAY]

+1, TC.

Ben, not sure if it's happening in WalMarts in all states, but in Ok,
They've recently changed suppliers of their batteries.

And their new supplier does NOT back up it's warranty worth a flip.
I have personally learned this the hard way... recently. So, heads up!

No more WalMart batteries for me. They burned their bridge, so ta speak.

Yuasa's are great batteries.

Most Interstate's are, as well... But can vary depending on model.
Found that out the hard way, too.

I ran a maintenance-type in my Maxim for a while, and would keep it on a 900 ma "smart charger" during the winter which claimed it would maintain it without overcharging it. BS! It boiled the water right out of it, and got all over the frame. Screwed up the paint.

Maintenance free sealed batteries are the way to go.
Bought my last one for Max at O'Reilly's. I've had good luck with their batteries, and they stand behind them, too. Competitively priced.
Hope this helps a bit with your decision.
Bob

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Randy and others,

This site has a good FAQ regarding battery types and required chargers!

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/charging-articles/how-do-i-pick-a-battery-charger.html

And the ONLY problematic battery type is the TRUE GEL type battery, but just like the word "Kleenex" or XEROX are used for otherwise generic labels of Tissues and copier, a GEL CELL type battery is a different design than the other "wet Cell" types that are:
Regular Flooded=wet;
Sealed Maint. Free=wet;
VRLA=Valve Regulated Lead Acid which safely regulates release of Oxygen and Hydrogen gasses during charging;
AGM=Absorbed Glass Mat=still a wet cell type with the electrolyte suspended in close proximity to the plates active material;
True GEL= Electrolyte suspended with Silica Additive which stiffens it up, requires lower recharge voltages, and are more sensitive to damage from overcharging, premature failure and such.

They state that most "SMART" chargers, not just the cheap off the shelf styles can handle variety of battery types except for the GEL CELL unless they are specifically labelled and designed for Gel Cell!

I have an older off the shelf charger/starter with 2 amp/6amp/starter switch modes...but not like BNE's...with it's Conventional Low Maintenence vs. Maintenance Free Deep Cycle...but those still don't say GELL CELL!

However, from the site and info above at least BNE's charger should handle the AGM or VRLA type batteries just fine. MY charger may or may not work well with an AGM/VRLA...although mine is also not a "smart" charger with computer chips and such....but it does have a built in charge sensor and will SHUT OFF when the battery reaches it's charge level...by sensing the voltage push back as it reaches the charged level.

T.C.

[DeanR]

I use a BATTERY TENDER JR. on three bikes, all AGM, basically whenever parked, all year long. Never a problem. I don't know about other brands of 'tenders'. I suspect they are not all created equal.

[madmax-im]

Why would that be, Marty? AGM is the same chemistry as wet cell. I know there is some confusion about the AGM vs. wet cell charging, that's why I brought it up. I have considered AGM as my next battery, but I'm not convinced it's a good deal for me if I have to get YET ANOTHER charger lol. I just don't know the real deal.

for me the advantage is not having to add fluids that BTW can leak battery acid onto the bike's frame or exhaust as was the case on my Maxim a big a big stain on my chrome muffler...a big reason i went to a sealed GEL battery. That and I am usually negligent when it comes to maintaining a battery...

[madmax-im]

as for chargers...this is what i have used on both types of batteries...notice the switch on the lower left...

[GLoweVA]

The AGM (or sealed) batteries do not have an excess of water/acid in them so they don't like getting overcharged. Overcharging causes electrolysis of the water and thus the release of hydrogen, which is fine in the wet batteries as we can add more distilled water as the levels drop.
The sealed cells don't have that excess water and if they do get overcharged and gasses are produced, then it is possible to have a container failure due to pressure build up.

Here at work (Submarine shipyard) we put sealed batteries in the sub. (a lot of them) and they have specific charging criteria that differs a bunch from the old style wet cells we used to have.

Hope this helps educate some on the differences between the two.
As for preference, I don't mind the wet cell ones. They're cheaper but they do require a little bit of attention. (ie. not plug and forget it, but don't these old bikes require that anyway?)

[DAVINCI]

pls elaborate "float charger"

Why would that be, Marty? AGM is the same chemistry as wet cell. I know there is some confusion about the AGM vs. wet cell charging, that's why I brought it up. I have considered AGM as my next battery, but I'm not convinced it's a good deal for me if I have to get YET ANOTHER charger lol. I just don't know the real deal.

[natemoen]

pls elaborate "float charger"

Battery maintainer.

[madmax-im]

My AGM will sit 3 mos and crank the bike right up. I believe a float charger is to be avoided on these.

pls elaborate "float charger"

[jetmechmarty]

My AGM will sit 3 mos and crank the bike right up. I believe a float charger is to be avoided on these.