1980 XS11 Special - Ugly Duckling Rebuild

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Kurt,

To test the 2nd gear, you'll need to be able to get on the throttle fairly strongly.....the dogs/slots will pull apart under throttle stress and then they spin past each other and then slam back together, so you get this skipping effect.

The charging system doesn't kick in until around 2500 rpm, so yeah, with a weak battery it can be hard keeping the bike running at idle...dropped voltage levels drop spark energy and you can get the eventual ignition failure to where the engine dies.

Yes...we often warn new members to really hang on lest they get their arms yanked out by the sockets when they crank the throttle!

Fuseblock asembly looks great (Even though you didn't use the one I resell).

T.C.

[kboehringer]

==========
So maybe I can lightly sand off whatever is loose, wipe it clean and give it a shot? Right over the clear coat as long as it is still well adhered? ==========

Jim,
YES, you could. However, I think a layer of sandable primer and another wet sand would be the best choice. What I was trying to say was that blasting down to bare metal is often not required except in extreme cases. If your paint is not damaged other than light peeling, fading, or otherwise aged top-coat it is a great base to work from. Primer provides the best adhesion and will cover any imperfections where perhaps a bit of top coat peeled and light to heavy scratches will be corrected as the top-coat(s) won't cover those.
Kurt

IF your thinking of doing this yourself here's an idea of cost:
Primer
PPG JP202 Primer - 1 pt. ($20)
PPG JR506 Reducer - 1qt ($20)
PPR JH301 Primer Hardener - 1pt. ($20)
Single Stage Top Coat
PPG JAU Custom Color - 1pt ($30)
PPG JR506 Reducer ($0) (same as above you got plenty)
PPG JH6680 Top-Coat Hardener ($20)
Mixing Cups, Funnels, Stir Sticks ($5)
Paint Gun from Harbor Freight ($15)

Personally, call me a fool, I painted my tank & side covers outside on a nice day without the use of a respirator. HOWEVER, if I were inside or doing more than a little bike tank the Respirator would be a must for me. A decent 3m respirator from the paint store is about $25 and should be kept in the bag when not in use and tossed in the trash after about 6 months if it has been used at all. Them temp MUST BE above 70... The hotter the better!

Kurt

[kboehringer]

Gonna need front brakes for that test!

Hey Kurt,
To test the 2nd gear, you'll need to be able to get on the throttle fairly strongly.....the dogs/slots will pull apart under throttle stress and then they spin past each other and then slam back together, so you get this skipping effect.

I'm gonna need to finish the brakes before I'll be able to get on the throttle too strongly. I took her out today (only on my street) with rear brake only. The fronts are in pieces but I just couldn't wait.

Yes...we often warn new members to really hang on lest they get their arms yanked out by the sockets when they crank the throttle!
T.C.

I drove one of those HYaBoOSERs (I don't have any idea how to spell it) a year or so back and nearly crapped in my shorts when it pulled front end of the ground in 3rd & 4th gear with 1/2 a flick of the wrist. My 11 isn't anything like that but it sure is strong and I wasn't really expecting it to be that strong. I got on it a little like I do my XJ550 and there is absolutely a noticeable difference.

Thanks for the compliments on the Fuse Block. I had to do the same with the XJ so it was something I've done before.
Respectfully,
KURT

[jetmechmarty]

If it were mine and the transmission proved to be good, I think I would consider doing the washer move while this machine is getting the royal treatment. Doing that will cost nothing but time.

[sail4free]

However, I think a layer of sandable primer and another wet sand would be the best choice. What I was trying to say was that blasting down to bare metal is often not required except in extreme cases. If your paint is not damaged other than light peeling, fading, or otherwise aged top-coat it is a great base to work from. Primer provides the best adhesion and will cover any imperfections where perhaps a bit of top coat peeled and light to heavy scratches will be corrected as the top-coat(s) won't cover those.

==========
Thanks for this intel. I've bought paint where the car painters get their product and the quality difference between it and the rattle cans from the cheapo parts stores is like night and day.
JIM P.
==========

[jetmechmarty]

the stock fuse holder was crap and not even engaging the "H"eadlamp fuse. Upgraded all the fuses......

I'd like to know a little more about this installation. How are the wires terminated? Did the box come prewired and you splice it in?

[kboehringer]

Individual Fuses

I'd like to know a little more about this installation. How are the wires terminated? Did the box come prewired and you splice it in?

Marty,
I used the OEM fuse holder and four individual ATM fuse holders from Autozone. I removed each OEM fuse and the associated wires one-at-a-time. I cut back several inches of the OEM wire bundle wrap and s,pliced, soldered and heat shrunk each connection. I varied the lengths of the pre-wired ATM fuse leads so I didn't end up with a bug lump in any one location. You can see one or two of the soldered shrunk connections on the left side of the box, the remainder are up under the re-wrapped main bundle.

Each individual fuse holder is double zip tied to the OEM fuse base at the location of the original glass fuse using the area where the fuse clip use to attach. I used wire marker wrap to maintain an I.D. of each wire and also marked the fuses with: "M 30" (Main), "H 10" (Headlamp), "T 20" (Turns Sigs), "I 10" (Ignition)

Pretty simple job but took about two hours or so and less than $20 in supplies.

Kurt

[jetmechmarty]

Marty,
Pretty simple job but took about two hours or so and less than $20 in supplies.

Kurt

Well done! It may be simple, but if you don't do it right it can make for a big headache on the side of the road.

[somesuch]

Don't forget to use McKay brake assembly lube..

Ray,
...



It was also clearly not necessary to do much more than use a very fine steel wool to clean the pistons and cylinders in the calipers. I pulled the old seals and cleaned them and their groove thoroughly. They look very good and although the seals are old, they move relatively freely with a little air pressure from my little hot dog compressor as it can't provide the appropriate pressure which master cylinder provides. I'll need to order new seals, dust covers, and SS lines before installation on the bike
...

Respectfully,
Kurt

[kboehringer]

Quick Update - HEADER IDEA!

XS Folks,

I've made a bit more progress over the last few days as the delivery trucks have provided a few more new & used parts.

Partzilla came through with a new diaphragm for the front master and I'm gonna try to use the OEM Master for a while before I upgrade to the one everyone here has recommended. Partzilla also came through with new rubber grommets for the speedo & tack making them look much nicer.

Andreas has come through again with a bunch of nice stuff I anxiously await to clear customs.

The Honda headlamp bucket has been replaced with the proper Yamaha unit. Unmolested fork ears and proper turn signal mounts have also been installed.


HEADER REPLACEMENT PLAN.........
I spoke to my guy at the muffler shop about bending these small pipes. His machine has the ability to bend the pipe but he doesn't carry much in-stock of that size. HERE'S THE PLAN.....

I am located very close to SUMMIT RACING's retail outlet in McDonough GA. Actually, I can see their sign from the front lawn of my place of work. Summit has a discount area where discontinued, lightly used, or slightly damaged new parts are sold for pennies on the dollar. I recently purchased ceramic Hooker Headers for my T/A for less than $100 (retail $600++). They had a few scratches but not any more than I was gonna put in them jamming them into the car from below.

I'm gonna keep checking the discount rack for a set of cheap headers. I've seen damaged sets sold for as little as $20 at Summit. I'm gonna grab one of those sets! We're gonna cut 'em apart and fabricate a nice set for the XS11 using the pieces. We should be able to modify the collectors and pipes to make a really nice, interesting and functional unit for pennies compared to the retail cost of the few sets of new that are still being sold and a mere fraction of a good used XS11 set. I'll keep you posted of my progress on this......

Respectfully,
KURT

[kboehringer]

Photos ARE deceiving.....But here are a few.

XS Guys,
Spent the whole weekend AGAIN working on the Ugly Duckling. Started off by turning a standard seat into a special seat. I ordered the wrong one and figured I could make it work....


Turned out pretty good if I do say so myself.

It's not perfect but it'll do for now.

Decided it was time to see if the tank would actually hold gas and see if my repaired petcocks without the vacuum system would work. BUT before that, I decided to check the Sync on the carbs. YES. I KNOW. I KNOW. I KNOW it doesn't make a lot of sense doing this prior to a valve check & adjust but I decided to do it anyway as a means to see if I had any MAJOR issues. They were fairly close although this will all have to be done again after a valve adjustment.



The front end has been mostly straightened out: Signals, Headlamp, Emblem, Fork Ears, Better Fender, horns installed, .



All the work done for today, I decided to take a spin (now that I have a seat). I discovered a number of additional issues: The speedo doesn't work (cable broken), the front brakes don't work (master is Junk), the steering stem has a serious issue (probably crap bearings and bad torque), Head Gasket is leaking oil (ABOVE the tensioner), an XS11 with only head pipes is loud as HECK!

The photos are ABSOLUTELY deceiving. Although it doesn't really look like as big of a TURD as it did three weeks ago..... It's still a TURD that been polished a little.



Hope ya'll had a great weekend. I'm taking a spin on the XJ before the weekend is over!

Sincerely,
Kurt

[kboehringer]

Project Update: Antique Grease! Replaced....

XS Guys,
I've been busy reading posts all over the forum and taking care of some minor issues. As stated previously, I promised the wife I'd lay off the XS purchases for June after a $600+ dollar May in Yamaha parts purchases. I have cheated a little, but the parts haven't yet showed so I'm not in trouble....YET!



I'm still working my way around the bike and trying to get a handle on the whole picture:

• The engine is going to need a complete going over and a head gasket is certainly in the near future. While I'm in there rings and valve seals are certainly going to be replaced (absolute minimum).
• Most of the missing and incorrect (i.e. Honda) parts have been replaced and a couple very poor existing parts were replaced with much better pieces (Thanks Andreas!)
• Since the funds are limited I decided to do some of the tougher work and pulled the steering head and repacked the bearings. Fortunately the bearings looked and felt nice once they were cleaned and the column feels nice now.
• I pulled the rear rim and the final drive to find that it has likely NEVER been serviced, cleaned, or properly lubricated on either spline. The grease in the splines had to be pulled out of each groove with a seal pick. That stuff was like street tar. It felt and had the appearance of hardened Permatex. Fortunately no damage to the splines.... I'm sure they'll love the new grease!
• The rear wheel bearings are ROUGH. Gonna check with Partzilla for a new set of those....(in JULY ) I put it back together so I could move it around or maybe make a trip around the block but a "Real Ride" is absolutely out of the question! There's too much work to do before anything other than a spin around the block would be considered.... I think I'm back to a 5/16/16 target for full operational ability (one year from initial purchase and my birthday).
• I LOVE the internet....Did a search for the Yamaha Technician I worked for in the late 70s at the dealership in PA. FOUND HIM! He's sure he has a several boxes of OEM Yamaha Valve Shims somewhere in his garage. If he can find them.... He's gonna send 'em to me for FREE! Glad that guy liked me back in the 70's.
• I've seen new tires on Evil-Bay from $65ea to $250+. Does anyone have any great experience/performance from any of the less expensive offerings?? My XJ-Maxim came with a nearly new set of Metzlers so I haven't actually bought a street bike tire in something like two decades!
  Then I have to figure our who locally (ATL) can balance them properly for me???

Respectfully,
Kurt

[DiverRay]

I think it's "allsballs" that carries all but the one bearing for the XS. There is a link to a UK XSive who DID have the one bearing no longer available. A search on rear wheel bearings should bring up the thread....
For tires, motorcyclesuperstore.com seems to have the price AND customer service we like(or at least SOME of us). Lazertech and Shinko are the two big brands with tires that fit the standard, and the special tires are easier, as the 16" rear CAN be had from most companies. Almost ANY of the tire threads will mention a product that will dynamically balance the tires. motorman swears by it, as do a few other members. Mounting isn't very hard, so it may be a time/no money thing that will keep the other half happy.

[kboehringer]

Bearings & Drives (BD Industrial) & McMaster

Diver Ray,
Thanks for the reply.

I think it's "allsballs" that carries all but the one bearing for the XS.

I will check the thread you mentioned. If the sizes of these bearings is mentioned I can 100% guarantee I can find every roller or needle bearing for these wheels (and the bike for the that matter) available in the U.S.A. I work for a Japanese production facility as Maintenance Manager and we replace dozens of bearings every week. I did not remove mine as I was sure I would destroy them on the way out. Without replacements in my hands that would not have been good. If I had the O.D. x I.D. x Width & Style (seal(s), shield, etc.) I am certain either McMaster-Carr or B&D Industrial will have them. If not, I have a dozen other places I can get them from or import them from Japan with one of my other orders if necessary. I will find them and post the results with contact info in an appropriate thread.

For tires, we like Lazertech and Shinko are the two big brands with tires that fit the standard, and the special tires are easier, as the 16" rear CAN be had from most companies.

I'm glad you mentioned "SHINKO". I found this tire (offered by several sellers) all at or about the same price of $65.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261802098479?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I don't need to purchase the cheapest tire on the planet, but I won't be able to spend for one of the $250+ each tires that's for sure. Once I have the Ugly duckling all in great running order with a couple of mandatory upgrades done (ss brake lines, 2nd gear washer, etc.) I can upgrade the tires to Metzlers, if necessary. IN THE PAST, it seemed the Metzlers had the best reputation and most loyal following. I don't know if that is still true?

Almost ANY of the tire threads will mention a product that will dynamically balance the tires. motorman swears by it, as do a few other members. Mounting isn't very hard, so it may be a time/no money thing that will keep the other half happy.

I will find and read this information today. Thank you!

Sincerely,
Kurt

[Prisoner6]

Ride-On

Hi, Kurt -

The tire balancing product DiverRay referred to is called Ride-On ...

You can read about it here:

Ride-On Motorcycle Dynamic Balancer & Tire Sealant

If you're doing your own tire changes, you can purchase the product directly from Ride-On, or buy it elsewhere online, i.e. Amazon, etc.

If you're having it done, I doubt you'll have any trouble finding a tire shop/dealership in Atlanta that uses Ride-On ...