ACCT Installed Wrong?

[CaptonZap]

While I laud your enthusiasm, might I suggest that you find out where the problem is, what caused it, and what to do so that it is not repeated. Removing and replacing a head involves a lot more than ACCT installation, and if you don't know what the original cause was, how do you know it won't be repeated when you replace the head?
Valves are another one of those hard to find items, and should be sheltered from learning mistakes.
No offense intended. CZ

[IanDMacDonald]

The thing that really irritates me is the fact that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the bike. Everything is always due to my ignorance.

[IanDMacDonald]

Yeah, I was just thinking this may be the best opportunity to break the engine down and get it cleaned and re-painted, since I have to pull everything off of it. Might be the end of my riding till I figure it out. My buddy is a cqr mechanic aqnd believes just based off what I told him, that it skopped a tooth, and possibly bent a valve. I'll pull the valve cover tomorrow and check the clearances. Scott lives about an hour North of me. I might grab that head from him.

[DGXSER]

Think of it this way Ian, Apollo 13 went to he!! in a handbasket because someone performed routine maintenance that went horribly wrong. Your situation is in no way as catastrophic as Apollo 13.

Maybe you did something wrong, maybe you just got unlucky. Honestly, TRBig has probably taken more of these motors apart than any other member I know of. Mostly due to his use of the right hand wrist XSively!! Anyway, he had adjusted or replaced or reinstalled more cam chains than I have seen I am sure, and yet, somehow, it bit him just as hard. Bent about every valve in the engine, and it was not even his bike IIRC.

So just take a deep breath. Take the steps to determine what exactly has happened. Remove the valve cover, check the timing marks, and the valve clearances. That will give you information to determine the extent of the problem. If you need to replace the head, it can be done. There are plenty of folks here to guide you and answer questions. As always, if you have a question how to do something, ask here first before trying to see what happens. It is much better to ask a question than to suffer the consequences of a bad decision. BTDT printed up the T-shirts.

[IanDMacDonald]

Hey guys. I just wanted to share this email from the PO of my bike and fellow forum member (shousey440). Never in I don't know how long have I ever felt so grateful to a perfect stranger that has a common love for motorcycles. Afterall, he owned the bike for 19 years.

Hi Mac-You need a clymer manual and slow down.You bent the valves. I can hook you up with that head. Is the head off? Go ahead and take it off. Don't forget the center two head bolts- one front and one rear that bolt up from the block to the head. Don't drop the chain into the crankcase. You will need to have the valves from the spare head ground (not the seats), then lap in to the yellow bike valve seats. You will have to assemble the cams into the head on the bench with lite "test springs" to set up the valve clearance one cam at a time on the bench. If you do both at once you'll crash the exhaust and intake valves into each other. Remove the cam. Then assemble the head with the real springs. then set up the "t" on the timing ring and be sure the gears are lined up before tightening down the cams and definitely before moving the crank AT ALL. I may even have a head gasket for you. You will want new valve seals for sure. Did you know that the head was mildly ported, backcut valves, valve job, surface milled, valve job, and valve clearances set by me? I'll be here round 6pm. Or Saturday. If we go with Saturday, I can disassemble and have the valves ground locally and we can set up the yellow head on Saturday. I know your on 2nd shift, so let me know what will work. Plan on spending some time- I want you to have success and I need you to take in some knowledge about this job your in for. Reading that post last night really well- lets get you dialed in on this job. Trust me on this one. Sincerely, Scott

[WMarshy]

First, I definitely did not check the valve clearances like I should have following the timing of the cams. Damn!!! Second, I got the bike started this morning and it sounded "okay", but not great. I took it for a short ride and it sounded just a tee bit off. You know how you know it sounds just a little bit off, but everyone else would not know the difference? Well, I could tell that something was off just a little. So, got it back home and pulled everything off and ran a compression test on cylinder number one. Shot to 90, then 120, then 0. Hmm. Tried cylinder number two, 0. Three and four were 0 too. Hmm. My buddy suggests that it could be just a timing issue. I doubt that. I hear a tapping sound coming from cylinder number one. So, I assume that's a bent valve. Scott (PO) has another head that he's willing to give me from a parts bike. Should I just swap the other head on?

Easy now, I think your moving a little too fast for your own good here. Take a little more time to figure out what you have and be sure you actually have a problem. Its very unlikely you would bend just 2 valves and not all 4 on the intake or exhaust if a cam were out of time. Even more unlikely that it would run for much longer then a few revolutions let alone for a short ride. If the bike runs you likely dont have bent valves but might be off one tooth.

Take a step back and start with another compression check. Its highly unlikely you will get 90-120 psi (even momentarily) with a bent valve. Maybe the check valve in your compression checker is not holding the compression built by the engine? If you can try another compression checker or use it on something else like your lawn mower or another bike.

Another good verification would be to check your cam timing and verify your shim clearance while the valve cover is off.

We all tend to over complicate things sometimes so it is best to start back with the basics. Just trying to give you some options to check before you go replace a head/valves that might not be damaged.

[natemoen]

Easy now, I think your moving a little too fast for your own good here. Take a little more time to figure out what you have and be sure you actually have a problem. Its very unlikely you would bend just 2 valves and not all 4 on the intake or exhaust if a cam were out of time. Even more unlikely that it would run for much longer then a few revolutions let alone for a short ride. If the bike runs you likely dont have bent valves but might be off one tooth.

Take a step back and start with another compression check. Its highly unlikely you will get 90-120 psi (even momentarily) with a bent valve. Maybe the check valve in your compression checker is not holding the compression built by the engine? If you can try another compression checker or use it on something else like your lawn mower or another bike.

Another good verification would be to check your cam timing and verify your shim clearance while the valve cover is off.

We all tend to over complicate things sometimes so it is best to start back with the basics. Just trying to give you some options to check before you go replace a head/valves that might not be damaged.

I would have to agree with Don here. Step back, take a deep breath, and reckeck everything twice before you go buying parts you might not need. Even if you end up pulling the head to make sure if you bent any or not.

Just SLOW DOWN!

[shousey440]

cam

DGXSER-
What's the difference between the 78 and 79 cam?
Thanks, Scott

[DGXSER]

Scott,

I believe the 78 cams had a little more duration in them. I am not certain as I have never measured them, but I recall reading that on the site before. It has to be true, it was on the internet.

[XS1100 Newbie]

Ian. I have been fighting the same thing, kind of. I pulled my carbs and cleaned and reset them, installed an automatic tensioner, and followed all the steps for doing so. The bike ran good, until one day it didn't. I am still in the process if figuring out why i don't have number one firing. The compression is low, but all timing marks line up. It is very agrivating to not be able to ride, but i realize i need to find the cause before causing more damage. I agree with most of the guys, that you need to back off a little bit. Make a list of things to check, and check it all with care. Be the doctor, and not the patient.
Bob

[IanDMacDonald]

Hey Guys. I'll get to checking the valve clearances after class today. But, to clear up the confusion, I'll briefly give a re-cap of what happened over the weekend.

After getting the cams re-aligned, I rotated the crank a bunch of times to make sure they stay aligned. The next morning I synced the carbs (did not re-check the valves), then took it for a ride. My best guess was a mildly bent valve on the number one cylinder as it felt a tad off on power and sound, however all four cylinder pipes were equally hot. I took it for a ten minute ride. No abnormal noise, etc. I got it home and back into the garage for a simple compression test. I disconnected the coil leads so I did not have to mess with grounding the disconnected spark plug, and hooked ny compression tester to cylinder number one. Hit start and got 90 psi, 120 psi a half second later, then 0 with a tapping noise. Hooked it up to cylinder's 2, 3, 4, and got 0 as well. I thought to myself it was a bad gauge, so dug out my back-up gauge. 0 psi across all four cylinders. I hooked up the coils again and tried starting the bike and got nothing.

That's the re-cap.

[crazy steve]

DGXSER-
What's the difference between the 78 and 79 cam?
Thanks, Scott

The '78-79 cams are the same. They have the same intake lift as the later '80-82 cams, but slightly less (.020") exhaust lift. The big difference is considerably more duration on the early cams (nearly 20 degrees IIRC). All early cams are identified with a '2H7' cast into them, the later cams have '3H3'.

[crazy steve]

Ian, I'll also say that take some time to figure out what's wrong. Pull the valve cover and timing cover (again!) and check your cam timing. Turn the motor by hand, and STOP if you feel any more than 'normal' resistance. If your cam timing is off by more than one tooth, you may have bent valves. It almost sounds like you broke the cam chain, which if that's the case you do have bent valves if you spun the motor.... And maybe damaged pistons if the valves hit them hard enough.

[Rasputin]

Ian... please do not take this the wrong way but please wait for Scott to come and help you.
If I had a dollar for every time you have been told to check or recheck or slow down or wait until someone can help you has appeared in these threads, I would not have to pay for beer for a very long time.
Trust me that one idea does not cover everything and you must be sure of everything before proceeding. You seem to have the idea that you just have to do this and then "Run It" or turn it over to do a compression check or whatever. This is exactly what destroys engine parts. I have asked on the forum and PM's if you have a manual and what kind. That is not just a may need but it is a real need.
Some times you post a question and then post what you did 15 minutes later with no help. If you want help you have to wait for it. I offered my advice in a PM and said I would get back to you before I would advise you did anything. Now you probably have bent valves. One night of waiting may have saved you and others countless hours working on your bike.
If you want us to help then please do what is best for you and your ride and carefully read the replies, absorb the information and act upon confirmed information. Then proceed with care and Double check everything. When you say things like "Every time I got them together, I would be past the "T" mark by an inch. So, what I ended up doing was cheating a little, and started the timing plate a little early". It gets frustrating.
There simply is no Cheating when it comes to timing. If you had to cheat you were doing it wrong. Now another XSessive is willing to come to your rescue. Please do not make this worse by turning that motor over more just to check the shims. Let an experienced man walk you through what needs to be done.
Again I ask that you not take this the wrong way, but it would appear that your enthusiasm outstrips your experience.

[skids]

Well, at least Ian is not unwilling to do some wrenching on his bike. He gets high marks for that! Timing with cams is definately critical with interferrance-type engines. Ian will end-up knowing more about his bike than most that just take it to the shop for everything.