No surrender

[egsols]

Hey TC,

Just thinking out loud, if a pilot circuit is gummed up could it be tested by plugging the pilot air jet with a finger and seeing if the bike starts to stumble. If it does then it's probably okay, if it doesn't then it's definitely not okay.

Am I thinking along the right lines here?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ernie,

Sounds plausible to me, since IF the pilot circuit is already plugged, it's NOT contributing, and therefore plugging the pilot AIR jet port would probably NOT cause any change in running. But IF the Pilot circuit IS working, then plugging the air jet should cause an overly rich condition and probably affect idle!?

Hey BNE, the neutral light indicator is on the engine pan near the sidestand, should be on the right when looking at the below photo, sorry but it doesn't actually show the neutral light, but you can see a depression/curved area in the pan!


BNE, when I looked at the carbs before putting them back on, the butterflies were all very close to the same position, and Randy had synched them previously, we only changed the pilot jets, so the synch will still be very close...hence why it DOESN'T have a hanging or rising idle when warmed up, etc.!! But running it in the lower gears at the higher rpms where the mains are kicking in will be better for the engine, but running it with the #2 cylinder misfiring/not firing shouldn't really cause any damage for the short time you'll be running it, and you'll be hitting the mid/high rpms where all 4 hit as well.

Take an allen wrench check and tighten the bolts that hold the intake boots to the head, especially #2. You can pull the vacuum hose off the Octy and apply suction to make sure you get resistance...which you should since the Octy seems to work. Same thing for the smaller hose going from the #2 carb up to the Vac. Boost Sensor....a possibility that the diaphragm in the boost sensor has a hole in it allowing a vac. leak, and also could affect the vac. adv. at the same time!?

Just checked the MicroFiche, it shows a Gasket, not an Oring for the neutral switch indicator. However, it might also leak from internal breakdown of the switch, but it is still working, so perhaps, the gasket has just gotten flat, and removing it...you'll need to unscrew the wire to it first, then unscrew it to clean and replace gasket. TO SAVE YOU from having to drain the oil, get a blanket/piece of old carpet and lay "Max" on it's right side to expose the bottom for easy access!
T.C.

[madmax-im]

OK TC... will check those things out...took the bike for another 15 miles ride at first the bike diddnt want to cruise at 3000 but did notice that at 3500 RPMs it was starting to kick in a bit better by 4000 and you are really going...I did a full acceleration from standing stop at WOT thru all the gears and I must say this bike has plenty of grunt after 4000 RPM's and the exhaust note sounds downright angry.Tafter doing that a couple of thimes I noticed that lower RPM launhes were more civilized but still bike is not running on all cyl's until its flogged a bit...I had the speedo pegged at 85 ish so I gave it a good launch or 2.Still after all that I came back and the #2 pipe was not hot like the other 3....
I am getting set to leave for CT on Fri so i wont have tim to get to this 'til Sunday at the earliest..so I will compile all the suggestions until then....

[madmax-im]

TC some observations on previous comments...you stated Max's idle wont rev higher ..but it actually does when the choke is on...it starts up on the first or 2nd try and afte less than a min.I have to turn down the choke...before the carb rejetting this was not happening...now it is ...thats the way its supposed to be...
I have decided that I will attempt to fix this problem myself....
I am dividing it into 2 parts...Its either Electrical or its Carbs'.So
before pulling the carbs..I'll look at all the plugs again and do a spark test.If its not that then I'll move on to the carbs.I'll need to look at some info on pilot circuits...

[madmax-im]

Other observations

forgot to mention that on each of the rides I took last week on Max ...there was the very strong smell of raw gas..at first I thought its because of the fairing..but actually its not normal....
just a few mins. ago I determined that #2 cylinder has plenty of spark...What I also found when pulling the #2 plug was that it was fouled and wet with gas...so that tells me carbs...ok now to them...First thing I will do is to remove them carefully as to not spill the gas in the bowls.I want to see how much is in them.?After I dump the gas...then I should do avacuum test ...by turning the carbs upside down and s trying to suck air thru them..it should be blocked but when right side up it should be open...If the float is off I adust it by the pilot screw?
Until I have a better understanding of whats going on...I'll wait to hear from you all...

[boyat68]

madmax-im:

Don't get fooled by the upside down suck test. Carbs will close ok when upside down (gravity), but putting them right side up may cause the floats to stick and not seal as the fuel pours in.

[trbig]

If you have brass floats, they could have a hole in one and be sinking. Blowing (I wouldn't suck.. there's been gas in that line.. hush Pro. ) through the fuel line upside down should tell you if the float is seating and should be done before you re-install the carbs every time. It's a quick check. Not understanding why boyat68 thinks it doesn't work...

If gravity alone stops it, then float pressure should also. BUT.. if it isn't seating, no amount of idle mixture is going to help it if that's what you meant. If what you meant is that you find it is NOT leaking.. then yes, I'd look at the idle screws on that carb.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

MadMax's XJ carbs have the plastic floats, and when we had the float bowls off to replace the pilot jets, we measured and inspected the floats, all were even at ~23mm.

But....BNE, I vaguely remember pushing down on the floats to test the float needles...their spring tips, and I "think" I remember that the #2 float didn't 'bounce' and so I think the pin in that float needle on that carb may be bad....or just stuck??

Being careful to remove the float pins...see the tech tips...then you can remove the float needle valve....and then spritz some carb cleaner into the pin/spring on that valve, gently pulling on it with a needle nose plier and see if you can get it loosened and moving like the others?? IF not, then you'll need to order 1....probably best to order a set and replace them all while you're in there!

What I was saying about the idle was that it wasn't hanging or climbing...yes, it will respond with the choke, and once it's released will idle down as it should, just was commenting on that I thought Randy's vac. Synch was still holding, very close so as not causing THIS current problem.
T.C.

[madmax-im]

TC when you pushed down on the floats was that with the carbs upside down or right side up?

[TopCatGr58]

BNE,

They were upside down on the bench while we were removing the pilot jets.
T.C.

[madmax-im]

Oh yeah...sorry I am still tired from yesterdays ride back from Mystic...I did over 400 miles yesterday and for the 2 days totaled 635 miles on my ST1100.I am confident that this problem is in the carbs now.So we'll see if I can get it right or what...time to learn or burn...tmrw will start afresh.Thanks

[randy]

BTW, Ben, you need to do that test with the bowls on to be sure the floats are not binding on the bowls. And, BLOW into the lines, it'll taste better!

[trbig]

What I might add... that I THINK boyat68 may have been saying... If you've done the blow test on the bench and they seal, then install them and they don't, there is a possibility of the needles dropping down in thier hole too far with the floats all the way down while right side up. BUT.. usually a light rapping with a rubber hammer or even riding down the road will clear that up.

I like to do the blow test with the bowls OFF first, so I can raise and lower the float while I do it to make sure the needle is operating properly. After you install the bowls, you can turn the right side up, then upside down a few times testing them to make sure the floats aren't hanging like Randy stated.

Tod

[madmax-im]

Originally posted by trbig
What I might add... that I THINK boyat68 may have been saying... If you've done the blow test on the bench and they seal, then install them and they don't, there is a possibility of the needles dropping down in thier hole too far with the floats all the way down while right side up. BUT.. usually a light rapping with a rubber hammer or even riding down the road will clear that up.

I like to do the blow test with the bowls OFF first, so I can raise and lower the float while I do it to make sure the needle is operating properly. After you install the bowls, you can turn the right side up, then upside down a few times testing them to make sure the floats aren't hanging like Randy stated.

Tod

This makes more sense to me ..If I leave the bowls on like Randy says how do I know the floats arent getting caught up inside?After I 've done it with the bowls off then I can put them back on and do the blow test again...OK out to the garage I go....its only in the 60's at the moment so no sweltering in the garage

[CarolynS]

Ben, don't forget to check the float pins and make sure they aren't bent or gouged. I was surprised at how easily they bent and can get chewed up from the enormous amount of aggravation it is to get them out! I don't remember if you said you ever removed them, but it's just a thought...
Everything should move freely and seat properly.
Good luck! It's gonna work and you'll be all set!!