No surrender

[madmax-im]

Originally posted by egsols
Doesn't the switch kill the motor if the stand is down and its any gear other than neutral?

It's supposed to start in neutral regardles of stand position, right?

Soooo, if its up and it starts but when its down it doesn't, and you're in neutral, sounds like maybe the wires are hooked up wrong and its thinking you are in gear and the stand is in the opposite position, if that makes sense.

Yes, Yes and Perhaps...wires were not disconnected from sidestand sw...we just moved it out of the way

[CarolynS]

Hey Ben

There is nothing wrong with taking it to the 'guy'.
I had to do the same, and I'm so glad I did! I could've made it a learning experience and bashed away at it. It would've been fun and frustrating and hopefully, I would've gotten it right!
But I doubt it.
Rather, I would've cost myself double, not have the bike, AND still have to take it to the mechanic!!
Instead...in a month-with a repair and full run through, plus lowering and too many other small fixes to list-to the tune of $700, I have a bike that is turn key, will pass inspection, and I'm riding it!
I think you're doing the right thing. Good luck with the repair, and you never know...it could turn out to be quite an adventure!

[madmax-im]

Thanks Carolyn...wow a triple post! never seen one of those before...LOL From the sound of your experience I'm a little green with envy....Looking forward to getting Max back on the road...dang, he is poster boy in the XS calendar for Aug!And he dont look that good now But hopefully he will soon

[madmax-im]

Max is on the rebound,but not out of the woods yet

Well a most grateful THANKYOU goes out to TC for all that he did to Max this weekend...we worked on him for 3 straight days.It was pretty intense at times in the stifling heat of VA's summer.90*+ in the garage.I will leave the details for TC to post..just wanted to get this thread back in the limelight...Max now sports a new look as well.TC is the master of fabrication and is truly inspiring to watch and learn from him!My brain's a little fried after the 390 mile ride back to NJ.

[TopCatGr58]

MadMax is a great warrior! 3 Day Battle!

Hey there Folks,

First, BNE had forgotten an offer I had made to him back at XS East this spring to bring Max down to my place, since I had a garage, tools, and a bit of experience with these transmission fixes. He had had a recent personal family emergency, but that resolved, and since I was only 6 hours away instead of 12+, he decided to take me up on my offer afterall!

BNE's Max To Do List: Fix Trans, mount Windjammer Fairing, swap out pilot jets....stuck. A few more things cropped up as we went along....see below!

Day 1
He arrived Friday about noonish, and I had been able to get Friday off, so we jumped right into working on it...after we got some lunch! He had already prepped Max for surgery by removing the pipes, draining the vital fluids, so just had to remove a turn signal, loosen part of handlebar, and pull gastank/seat off and it was flipped over. We pulled the shift cover off first....ALL shift drum pins and plates INTACT! Pulled the clutch cover and clutch parts, and finally the tranny pan!

Here's what we saw....the SHIFT FORKS were in perfect place, not flipped around or out of alignment with the shift drum! This was with the trans in 4th gear. But NOTE The space between the final 5th gear, and dogs and the 2nd gear wheel!!


Here is the trans in 2nd gear!

Again, you can see that the 5th gear dogs are not engaging at all with the 2nd gear slots!!! What could be the problem?

After removing the countershaft and gears, I then realized that the 2nd gear wheel had been put on the shaft BACKWARDS! SO.. it was a simple matter of pulling it off the shaft, flipping it around and putting it back on the countershaft, and viola, you can see the proper position and alignment/engagement with it in 2nd gear now!!

Then we tried to put the countershaft back in, dropped a couple of shiftforks partly into the engine, had to fish them out with clotheshanger, and then realized that I had forgotten to shift it back into 4th to get the countershaft gears back in!
The End of Day 1's work!

FYI: The New gears from Yamaha are undercut..just barely, see photos:5th gear dogs

4th gear dogs.



**************************************************
Day 2: Since we had the clutch apart, decided to put in an extra Steel for better grip...his HD springs he had put in last year were barely within spec! BNE brought a clutch cover gasket, but I had to make one for the shift cover.

Putting on the Fairing would be a little challenge in that it had it's wiring harness and plug for the fairing, but BNE didn't get a matching plug/wire set for the bike..so we had to fashion one from a couple of sets of trailer light circuits! I decided to inspect the wiring at the fuseblock....a good foundation right!!

Being an XJ, the fuseblock I offer/sell doesn't fit horizontally on the TOP/outside of the OLD block/plate, hits the side cover preventing it from closing!! There's also a metal mounting/battery frame that the plate screws into, and so the wire connectors would be hitting it IF mounted horizontally behind the OEM plate, even with cutting an opening.
I finally got the idea to mount it vertically, I could have lopped off the plate at the purple lines. I used one of the 3 screws for the Aux. Term and screwed it in from behind securing the fuseblock to the plate that way, cutting off the other mounting hole/flange off of the fuseblock so it wouldn't hit the frame!!

Here it is mounted on the bike all the wires run, but haven't put the fuses or cover on yet! I even rerouted the AUX terminal thru the fuseblock so he could still have the use, but with the ATCO fuses!!


Another point of problematic grounds that we talk alot about it this one, the engine to frame above the middle drive!!


Continued in next reply due to photo # limit per post!.........

[TopCatGr58]

MadMax....3 day WAR!!!!

Okay, so got the fuseblock fixed, then we found out that we had the wrong size bolts to mount the fairing to the frame mount, shopping trip to hardware store. Had to remount and reposition the horns, adding extensions as well. Had to remove the headlight bucket/turn signals, reroute wiring harness to allow folding in of the fork ears, reconnected all of the wires from the bucket, added the fairing wires, headlight, turn signals, tested fairing, found out LOW BEAM didn't work...thought had wired wrong, tested bulb, burned filament! Back to store for replacment sealed beam for Fairing.

Finished putting on the clutch cover and shift cover...after doing a little polishing with the buffer machine...had to show BNE how it worked! End of Day 2!

*********************************************
Day 3 Opened up carbs, found pilot screws just slightly mangled from previous cautious attempts at removal. Took well fitting screwdriver, tapped into jets with mild hammer action, and popped them loose without need for DRILLING....YEAH!!!!
Removed Pilot SCREWS=No Broken Tips found, sprayed compressed air thru pilot screw tower, felt air thru small Pilot ports inside carb throat, as well as thru pilot jet tower...making sure to blow OUT any residual brass particles from old jets! Ensured float bowl enrichener jets were open, rechecked float heights, ~23mm, even on all 4. Put new jets in, reassembled carbs, and then put them back on bike.

Other thing was previous attempt to mount pipes with new exhaust gaskets had failed...studs too short! Upon closer inspection, removed OLD gaskets first, then new gaskets and pipes fit with room to start nuts on studs!

Filled bike with vital fluids, we had charged his weak 11 volt battery first at 6amps for 6 hours, then 2amps overnight to 13.5 volts, but still needed a jump boost battery to get it to turn over quickly, fired up, and took it for a test run. Surprisingly, we now had ONLY 1st gear! WTF?? Then I remembered BNE having a little "fun" with the shift cover and gasket and realized that he might have pulled back on the cover after partially engaging the shift lever, pulling the lever outwards and allowing the shift pawl and it's gear teeth to drop out of alignment, the 2 dots!!! Pulled cover, and that's exactly what had happened, realigned, and we had ALL 5 gears!!! But the bike was still not running right in the lower rpms! Spritzed water on pipes, #2 hot but NO SIZZLE!See plugs: #2 not right!!


Decided to test the coils and plug caps. 1-4 showed no resistance,
beyond range of meter ~O.L. , same for 2-3, pulled caps off, all 4 caps ohmed okay, outer 5kohms, inner 8kohms, but found severe corrosion on end of #3 wire and matching plug cap!!


Snipped off 1/4" from each end, coil for 1-4 now ohmed around 15kohm, but coil 2-3 still gave NO reading: O.L., determined it was dying or shot! I had spare known working coil from my 81 after my MikesXS coil upgrade, swapped it out! Put back together, rode it again, still stuttering in low rpm range, kicks in well at ~4k rpm!!

But regrettably we ran out of time, patience, were suffering from heat exhaustion....temps were 90+ all 3 days!!!! Decided to pack Max back up so BNE could take him home, I had to work next day...Monday, otherwise we could have attacked the carbs again!
***********************************************
Summation:
Missing 2nd/5th gears FOUND, fixed.
Extra Steel Clutch plate installed.
OEM 47.5 pilots removed and swapped for 50, Mains had already been swapped by Randy, from 112.5 to 122.5, for his Indy Filters:True K&N, and 4-1 pipes!
Replaced Fuseblock and rewired!
Replaced faulty 2-3 coil.
Mounted Fairing, wired new fairing to bike harness.
Replaced Fairing Headlight.
Removed OEM headlight bucket/turn signals.
Wrapped wires in extra Vinyl material, secured with zip ties!
Remounted/rewired horns.

Remaining problems:
Sidestand switch...BNE to just bypass by combining all 3 wires!
Misfiring engine, #2 cylinder still not hot.

Things to check by whomever decides to continue the battle with MadMax!!

Check for vacuum leaks, #2 carb boot, boost sensor, Octy vac. line. ALL intake boots were new!!
Reclean pilot circuit on carbs. Check for damaged rubber diaphragms on slides....although carbs were cleaned recently by Randy/GURU!
RE-read plugs, previous #2 was black, possibly from flooding, but never saw fuel dripping out of #2 carb filter!
REcheck float valves to make sure they are sealing, not allowing a mild flooding problem which could contribute to #2 not firing properly!?
Check voltage at battery when running to ensure charging, enough power for good TCI functioning...possibly need to replace battery!

That's about it , any other thoughts and suggestions!?

[trbig]

Did you try just switching the plug wires between 2&3? It could also be just a simple need of a good carb synch. I would think that if it was a sticking float valve, or a float stuck on the side of a gasket, you would get an overflow situation out of the filter. I don't know how much the YICS system will compensate for each other, but that would be where I'd start.

As far as the pilot jet removal/replacement... then saying no broken tips found. Are you meaning the mixture screws? Do his carbs still have the brass cap over those?

Tod

[madmax-im]

Originally posted by trbig
Did you try just switching the plug wires between 2&3? It could also be just a simple need of a good carb synch. I would think that if it was a sticking float valve, or a float stuck on the side of a gasket, you would get an overflow situation out of the filter. I don't know how much the YICS system will compensate for each other, but that would be where I'd start.

As far as the pilot jet removal/replacement... then saying no broken tips found. Are you meaning the mixture screws? Do his carbs still have the brass cap over those?

Tod

No we I dont think we swapped the plug wires but dont quote me on that...The carbs had been synched by Randy last April but no harm in doing it again...We had no overflow so i dont think the float valves were sticking.
Not sure abt the YICS either
Yes,talking abt the idle mixture screws...
No Brass caps were noted....

[mro]

Mr Murphy always be looking over your shoulder and ready to pounce when least XSpected

As fer #2 would swap plug wires first, if problem does not follow swap then would change the plug with a known good one. Would suck to pull the carbs if not necessary.


mro

[madmax-im]

Originally posted by mro
Mr Murphy always be looking over your shoulder and ready to pounce when least XSpected

As fer #2 would swap plug wires first, if problem does not follow swap then would change the plug with a known good one. Would suck to pull the carbs if not necessary.


mro

Will try plug swap...all plugs were changed...will read plugs again after burning a tank with seafoam first......pulling the carbs is not hard..I've done it once and observed it being done by TC...
As for Mr Murphy...I come out this a.m. after running the bike yesterday and there is a small 3" slick of oil leaking from Max...so he continues to defy evryone's attempts to fix him.This bike is gonna become famous for how many Guru's have been and will hopefully be helping me to fix this last thing...but its really the biggest thing beause its performance is totally doggged right now...cant...dont want to take it out of my 'hood

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod/MRO,

Well after pulling the plugs, finding the corroded plug wire and also the no ohm readings on the 2-3 coil, the entire COIL and caps were swapped out with KNOWN good coil from my bike that I had left over after the MikesXS coils upgrade. And we put in all 4 new plugs as well.

Then a test run still revealed the cooler #2 pipe. The Old plug#2 was dark, but not really sooty or oily, just dry and dark, so not sure if just fouled or what? Dark makes me think of rich, but the other symptoms lead me to think LEAN/lack of fuel!? But I know either too much or too little will keep it from firing properly!

Surprisingly you can get the bike to start and idle, it's the low rpm take off that it dogs....I don't necessarily call it bogging, you have to get the rpms up a bit more to get it to pull off, and when you get up to and over 4Krpm, the power does come on, so it's like it's starving for fuel until the MAINS kick in!

This is partly why I'm still 'leaning' pun intended towards it being a lean rather than overly rich problem, but pulling the plugs can help with that. With new known good coils/plug caps, takes "us" back to carbs, fuel flow. Need to remove float bowls WITHOUT turning them upside down to see IF there is any in the #2 bowl.
The pilot circuit is the culprit, but vacuum leaks can cause it to not be able to draw fuel thru at low rpms, but can still get enough with the higher rpms to activate the mains!

Perhaps BNE can take the filters off, get some starter fluid and with the bike running, spritz some into the #2 carb throat to see if that increases the rpms? Could help to diagnose lean vs. rich?

BNE, with regards to the oil leak, you know we put on a good snug tranny/engine pan, clutch and shift cover gaskets! The O-ring around the Oil Pan level sensor was thick and seemed tight, so that leaves the NEUTRAL light indicator, along with the Oil Filter chamber O-ring, or the engine pan drain bolt=which you said you had tightened as the likely sources!? You can use the carb cleaner to spray and remove the oil from the bottom of the engine, and then get some baby powder, cornstarch powder, and dust under there, then run it for a little while and turn it off and look for the trail/evidence of where it's coming from!
T.C.

[trbig]

Also.. keep an eye on your oil level.... just in case it's getting into the crankcase instead of the filter IF it is a float valve leaking. It could make your level high enough to where your vent tube starts venting oil into the breather.. and onto the floor. A 3 inch slick isn't just an occasional drip... need to find where it's coming from.

Tod

[mro]

get some starter fluid and with the bike running

Not something I let newbie mechanics do in my shop (at least on a customers machine).
Nasty flame backfire out of the carb can be the least of problems that can result from either.
If it has been determined the problem is not spark...pretty much leaves the carbs if no vac leaks.


mro

[madmax-im]

OK...I havent pulled anything off yet... put 1/2 can of seafoam in a tank of gas and in the process of running it thru...yesterday I really rode the bike..it is rough and feels like there is alot of resistance to forward momentum...transmission..all gears are excellent...clutch feel is weird because of the additional clutch plate and will take some getting used to.The bike at 4000+RPMs will smooth out but when trying to cruise in 5th the bike will lose RPMs unless I make an effort to keep them higher.It seems that lower RPMs are starting to smooth out a little...due to the seafoam...slighty improved ...have not taken battery out,It has plenty of charge and the bike fires up on the 2nd try.Will idle ok and sounds healthy enough.I want to take the carbs off but will wait until I have run thru this tank of seafoam..BTW since the bike runs soo rough while being ridden ...whats the best way to burn this gas off?Should I just let it idle?I am afraid to drive it very far and dont want to cause any engine damage due to a out of synch or mis firing cylinder...

[madmax-im]

Abt the leak...

all drain bolts are tight and no oil is coming from them...same is true for the oil filter area...so that leaves the neutral lite thingy...where exactly is it?Most likely I'll have to remove the entire exhaust again to get to the neutral indicator?