Running bad

[osmosis4b]

ok, newest troubleshooting info...
step1 -got out the ohm meter, checker resistance of the 4 wire plug at the ignition unit. The white/red to white/green resitance ranged was 734 ohms ranging from 726-741 ohms during manual vacumn advance adjustment. For he yellow/red to yellow/green connection I got 742 ohms ranging from 739-745 ohms @ 55 degrees F.

step 2- From ignition unit 9 wire plug to coil and got 00.5 ohms on the orange wire, and 00.6 ohms on the grey wire.

step 3- switched orange and grey wires at the connections under he and the problem switched. now 1 and 4 are hot and 2-3 are dead.

coil time?

[prometheus578]

"Coiled and ready to strike"

I'm confused now as to which cylinders are firing... but it's no matter. If you swapped the wires to the coils and now the other cylinders are sparking, then both coils are fine... one coil is just not getting the message from the TCI box.
Could be the TCI box not sending out, or could be the TCI box not receiving it's signal to fire from the pick-up coils.
I once checked the pick-up coils by passing a magnet by them and seeing if they generated a pulse for the TCI. Was something like a half a volt... but I don't recall if it was on an 1100, or a Kawasaki, Honda, etc. My long term memory not being what it used to, if I remember correctly.
"Wait a minute...", I say to myself, as no one else is around to hear me speak... Here's a test that's as simple as I am.
Find the wiring connector from the pick up coils to the TCI box. Open the connector, and using a pointed object(like my head), remove the pick-up wires from the connector, and swap them with each other. (wires from pick-up 1+4 now go into the connector holes for 2+3) Replug in the connector to the TCI harness. Crank the bike and watch for spark.
If 1+4 were previously firing, but now 2+3 are firing, then you have a defective pick-up coil/ wiring problem. If 1+4 were previously firing and they still are the only ones firing, then it's the TCI getting both pick-up signals but only sending out on one line, hence defective.

[Ken Talbot]

Osmosis - you want to check the pick-up coil wires while the engine is running. Forget about using a meter, just pull at the wires. The way the wires break inside the insulation, they also get held together by the insulation until the wires flex from the operation of the vacuum advance and vibrations from the road. You could use the meter if you had a second set of hands to work the wires, but if they're not moving, you will probably miss the break.

[osmosis4b]

prometheus- I should have clarified better, the squirt bottle/header test showed 1,4 as hot, and 2,3 as cold in the baseline condition. The remove a plug and look for spark method, gave conflicting results, as 1 and 4 had no spark, while 2,3 was a lightning bolt spark.

When I did the orange/grey coil lead switch, the 1,4 coil fired a good spark, not as hot or mean as the 2,3 coil spark, but good enough for combustion. I will try passing a Nb magnet past the pickup, and see if I can get a signal, like you mentioned. I will also try switching the pins around in the plug.

Ken- I gave the the wires a good amount of manual manipulation, and was only able to get the result listed below, I will check the numbers again with the engine running. The odd thing is that this isnt an intermittent problem, it was a sudden and stable problem. Do the wire usually break inside the silicone/mesh sleeve, or the wires behind the case cover, or at the interface?
ps- should i just feed the fuel lines a bit to run the engine, or do I need to reinstall the tank?

Will report results back, gotta do the work thing for a few hours first....
ps thanks everyone for being so cool, patient, and helpful. This has obviously been a hot topic in the past, but you guys are still willing to talk about it instead of telling me to... read old posts before asking questions, or F.O. Much appreciation!!

[DiverRay]

Osmosis,
The wire check is behind the left crank cover. The place you need to look at is the "crimp", where the metal plate holds the two wires going to the front pick up coil. This is the usual "bad" spot.
When you "fix" the wires, if it is the crimp, keep the crimp loose, so the wire can slide back and forth just a little bit, inside the protective sleeve. This should keep it from breaking again.
Ray

[osmosis4b]

headed home for lunch , I will check this while there...

[osmosis4b]

damn the corporate world, lunch was too short to make any conclusions, will post back after

[osmosis4b]

Diver- I removed the clamp, and with the Ohm meter inline, rolled the wire around and flexed it vigorously in all directions, with similar results as earlier, actually the resistance was rock solid, until I did some manual advance adjustments, then there was the same small deviations as mentioned last night.
I will try to move the wires in the plug, like Prometheus mentioned after work, stay tuned...

[DiverRay]

Did you try to PULL the wire away from the coil? That is what happens while riding. It happens mostly at idle or low throttle, and then will run ok at cruise. If you look at the "Tech Tips", it shows what to look for. The break will probably be at the crimp point, if that is the problem.
Ray

[osmosis4b]

so tonights news...
gave every wire a thourogh inspection visually and with an ohm meter all check out, checked all number with he engine running and without.
invited a friend, we repeated each test with the same result. both wires from the pickups are stable around 730 ohms, with a max variation of less than 40 ohms, during rough tugging and twisting.
Next I made a jumper that switched he upper and lower rows of the four wire plug. The problem is the same, 1,4 dead 2,3 good.
does this lead back to the pickup wires.
did the wire swap under the tank, problem swapped to 2,3, 1,4 were good.

[prometheus578]

(No quip... I'm too tired)

. now 1 and 4 are hot and 2-3 are dead.

The problem is the same, 1,4 dead 2,3 good.

If I understand you correctly... You are having the same symptom, but now 1/4 are dead and 2/3 are hot.
We may have lost something in the translation, so I shall describe the manuever again.
You have a set of cylinders that isn't firing, but we know that the coils are both good, as you swapped the leads going to the coils and the problem switched cylinders.
The magic box sends two signals to the two coils. For some reason, the box is only sending out one signal. The question is... is it the box that's faulty?
The box's signals come from the signals sent by the two pick-up coils. So what we need to determine is... Is the box receiving TWO signals and only sending out one?(defective box) Or is it only receiving one signal from the pick-ups, hence only sending out ONE signal to the coils?(one defective pick-up)
Let's say the cylinders 1 and 4 are hot and 2 and 3 are dead. This means that pick-up coil 1/4 is good. (we still don't know about the box, nor pick-up coil 2/3)
So we switch the pick-up coils wires going into the box. Now the impulses from Pick-up coil 1/4 are going into the box on the 2/3 circuit. The box should interpret these as coming from pick-up 2/3 and NOW fire cylinders 2/3, but not 1/4. This will show that the box is doing it's job(Sending out signals on both circuits) and is good. It will also show that one of the pick-up coils is acting like your old girlfriend... she doesn't put out!
If, when you switched the pick-up wires, you still had the same live and the same dead cylinders, this means that both pick-up coils are putting out (though doing so now on each others circuits), but the box is only sending signals to the coil via the same one route, so now the box is your old girlfriend and not putting out like you want her too.
Old girlfriends... being stingey with their boxes... sending out mixed signals, and all... First she get's my cylinder hot... then she switches and fires up somebody else! Ok... so once I got pre-ignition (Which was embarrassing), Then after that I couldn't fire at all, which some people say can happen, too. Sheesh... WOMEN! Why I ever started dating again I'll never know.
Maybe my TIMING'S off... I don't know. I always considered myself rather ADVANCED in these matters. I feel so RETARDED!

[osmosis4b]

Man prometheus, I dont think I have ever seen such a use of well placed analogies/puns! Unfortunately, (in this situation)I wish I had my old girlfriends box back, If so, my problem would be solved. It would be recieving input from even the smallest bit of stimuli, become hot, sending strong signals out to anyhing it was touching, and always be firing hot on all cylinders. The only problem with that box is that one day I would come home, and it would under another motorcycles seat, or jumpered to a few other motorcycles. Its nice for a bit, but gets old, especially when the other motorcycles become possesive.

So for clarification, the original problem was 2,3 were firing correct, 1 and 4 were not firing.

When switching the orange and grey coil lead wires under the tank, the problem is reversed, 1,4 good, 2,3 dead (indicating coils are good?). With the engine running, both llead wires read ~10.8 volts pulsing at the coils. both wires show less than 0.5 Ohms resistance. Returned wires to original location, problem is back on 1,4.

When switching the ignition box 4 wire plug around, (top to bottom) the problem DOES NOT CHANGE, either way it is hooked up, 1,4 are still dead.

Using a magnet at the pickup coil side, voltage registers at the 4 wire plug @ ~0.9V for both pickups when the magnet is near. Resistance across the yellow/red wire to the yellow/green wire in the 4 wire plug are stable ~730 Ohms, similar results across the white/red and white/green circuit.

so the ignition box is bad on 1,4 side?

[randy]

osmosis4b;

Sounds like you need a re-solder on your TCI box. Take a look at my tips here:

Randy's XS page

Click on the "TCI REPAIRS" button.

[osmosis4b]

Randy, thanks for the input, I checked out your page (good pics) I am at work now, but I am pretty sure I recognize the unit as a "2H7" box. It has the dust seal on the bottom as the one in the pics, and the 4 large transistor mounting points on the back of the board. I did remove it from the bike and looked at all of the solder connections from the back, they did not appear to be obviously burn/disconnected, but I could not get the board to come out of the box. I removed the screw inside the box, and the two coming in from the back, but it was being held in by the output pins. To remove this, do you have to melt the solder at the pins first? (I notice in the pics the pins are not attached to the circuit board.) Does the picture of the failure points on you site show a good unit, or is it showing a failed unit? More specifically , I am asking is the circuit in need of repair going to be really obvious, or is going to be a subtle difference. Is that why you recommended to solder all of the points. Is it going to be a burned circuit on the board, or just a sub-standard connection between the board and the pins when connected? (with so many questions, I sound like a chick!) I am pulling out my hair on this bike.
IF it wouldn't have ran so good for the first three days, I would have never known the difference. It still pulls harder on two cylinders than my Virago750.

[randy]

Don't remove the board from the box.

Just re-solder the pins at the bottom of the photo. Two rows of pins, 12 pins in all. These pins connect to the sockets at the outside of the box (where the harness plugs in). This is the most common failure on the TCI's. These joints (two on the left are for coils) get corroded and the coil(s) can't draw full current when under load. That is why when you measured the voltage with your meter, it looked OK, but won't deliver enough juice to the coil when running.