I am stumped

[BA80]

You know, one other thing that you could try before tearing into the pick ups. There could be a bad connection in the TCI. Those solder connections inside have been known to get fruity.

Try swapping the TCI first just for giggles. The 78 and 79 both take the 2H7 TCI. Easier to change too.

[79XS11F]

You know, one other thing that you could try before tearing into the pick ups. There could be a bad connection in the TCI. Those solder connections inside have been known to get fruity.

Try swapping the TCI first just for giggles. The 78 and 79 both take the 2H7 TCI. Easier to change too.

The TCI was swapped out from the modified bike and with both of the other ones I have here. No Luck. I may just pop my Accel coils on and see if that does the trick. Spark plugs are new NKGs, plug caps have been changed and the wire in the coil leads is good and into fresh copper on the ends and along the sides of the strands at the cut ends. Fuel is a fresh full tank.
This miss is for sure occasional. Perhaps once every 3rd. to 5th. cycle.
The carbs on the bike are the cleaned and refurbished ones that Mack lent to me last year so they are not an issue.
If it's not the Pickup coils I may have to just accept that the ignition may be weak and causing the plugs to fowl because they are coming out of the engine black but dry. Manual says that black and dry is weak ignition issue.
Rob

[79XS11F]

Also, the wiring harness was NOS as were the pick up coils when I put the bike together before going to the 2008 meet up. If as a new harness I used electrical tune up lub in every connection.
Rob

[jetmechmarty]

If as a new harness I used electrical tune up lub in every connection.
Rob

Do you mean dielectric grease? It's an insulator.

From Wikipedia:

Silicone grease should not be applied to (or next to) any switch contact that might experience arcing, as silicone can convert to silicon-carbide under arcing conditions, and accumulation of the silicon-carbide can cause the contacts to prematurely fail. (British Telecom had this problem in the 1970s when silicone Symel® sleeving was used in telephone exchanges. Vapour from the sleeving migrated to relay contacts and the resultant silicon-carbide caused intermittent connection.)

from ADVrider:

As written by Wayne Orwig, MGNOC Georgia State Rep.

Using Dielectric Grease on connectors.

A lot of people use dielectric grease on connectors. Some people mistakenly believe that dieletric grease is a conductor. In fact, it is just the opposite; it is an insulator. Dielectric grease is typically made of silicone grease.

As an insulator, dielectric grease is good for use on spark plug boots. This was one of the original applications on vehicles when the high-energy ignition systems came out. It can help insulate the connector and, in particular on a motorcycle where it can get wet, it waterproofs the spark plug boot. And, because it is silicone, it is fairly stable at high temperatures and won't affect the rubber and plastics.

So why would you put an insulator on a connector? The idea is that you use a thin layer. When you push the connector together the grease is pushed out of the way enough to get a connection and the surrounding grease then keeps out water and oxygen. The connector will be protected from the environment and less likely to corrode. Plus, the silicone is safe for the plastics and PVC insulation.

That sounds good, so far; so why not smear it on everything? Well there are a number of good reasons.

First, silicone grease outgases constantly. If the silicone gas gets near a connector or a contact, such as a relay, and there is a spark, the spark at the contact can create silicon dioxide. Some people even suggest that the silicone gas from dielectric grease can travel many feet through the unsulation on a wire and damage a contact on the other end. Omron states that even their sealed switches can be damaged by nearby silicone grease outgassing. Reference the following links for more info:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2vw.pdf

http://machinedesign.com/article/lub...-switches-1025

Second, it is an insulator. It can prevent contacts from touching. If you do use it, use a very thin layer.

Third, if you have a corroded connection, silicone grease will not help. In fact, it may make it worse. It can never improve anything. Dielectric grease will never make a poor connection better.

Fourth, it attracts dust and dirt and it hardens over time. This means that if you smear a lot of silicone grease on connectors you may see nearby relays, switches, or points fail later on. Since silicone grease does nothing at all to improve the connection and, in fact, may insulate the contacts in the connector increasing the resistance the connector may still fail.

So what do you do? Look for a contact enhancer/lube. While most contact cleaners are simple solvents that just wash the connector off there are contact enhancers that deoxidize the contact surface and actually work to lower the contact resistance (make a better connection). Most contact enhancers leave a lubricant behind that protects the metal and continue to deoxidize the metal and improve the connection. They can work to lower the resistance and make a better contact as time goes by. The best you can hope for from dielectric grease is that it seals it enough to not get worse. I have used Caig Deoxit on my bikes for a few years now. I first found out about this on my job when I had to correct an issue in a connector system that could not tolerate even 5 thousandths of an ohm of resistance drift. We had a connector in the field that had been improperly plated and was starting to drift, mostly in warm humid areas like Florida. Our testing showed that the Caig Deoxit could be a good long-term fix. We ended up using the Deoxit to stabilize the bad units until we could get corrected wiring harnesses built with the correct connectors. We also put a layer of Deoxit on the new parts to protect and keep them clean over their lifetime. This solved the drift issue that we had.

I still use a small amount of silicone grease on my spark plug caps. It helps to waterproof them and makes it easier to pull the cap off, but I use it in very small amounts and never near a relay or switch.

[bikerphil]

Yep, I've also run into problems on more than one occasion using dielectric grease, connections have failed after a few years.

[79XS11F]

I've been using it for years and never had an issue. I figure so long as there is a good mechanical connection there shouldn't be any issues and it keeps water out. All the other electrical components on the bike are working fine. I sure a S*#t don't want to have to start thinking about cleaning that out of all my connections.
Rob

[jetmechmarty]

I sure a S*#t don't want to have to start thinking about cleaning that out of all my connections.
Rob

That may be perhaps the best reason to never put it on there in the first place.

[DiverRay]

I sure a S*#t don't want to have to start thinking about cleaning that out of all my connections.

CRC electronics cleaner is your friend. With it, I can clean ALL the grease out of the connections without doing any damage to the plastic connector housings. Not really cheap, but nothing good is..

[BA80]

Without dielectric grease on the pick up coil connection behind the fuse panel my bike misfires like crazy in the rain and won't start after a good washing. I think I'll continue to use it as it was designed.

[CaptonZap]

Without dielectric grease on the pick up coil connection behind the fuse panel my bike misfires like crazy in the rain and won't start after a good washing. I think I'll continue to use it as it was designed.

I'm with you Greg. If it is good enough for the car manufacturers, it's good enough for me.

CZ

[yamtom]

well, is there a solution found yet, inquiring minds want to know

This thread is really comprehensive troubleshooting.

I too, love Deoxit. Is there anything else like it as a competitor?

I did not know that dielectric grease was so much of an insulator though, from now on I will only use it as such.

Is this the end of this thread or is there more to come, cant wait to see what the heck it ends up being.

[79XS11F]

The weather took a turn for the much cooler combined with rain combined with other priorities to address so the trouble shooting is on hold for now.
I will post my findings when / if there are any.
Rob

This thread is really comprehensive troubleshooting.

I too, love Deoxit. Is there anything else like it as a competitor?

I did not know that dielectric grease was so much of an insulator though, from now on I will only use it as such.

Is this the end of this thread or is there more to come, cant wait to see what the heck it ends up being.

[79XS11F]

Here's the update ...
I installed the Accel coils from my hop up bike and the miss persists. I will have to conclude that the pick up coils or something else in the timing circuit is at fault. So, if it rains tomorrow as is forecast, I will swap out the timing completely with the hop up bike and see what I get.
Rob

[jetmechmarty]

Rob,
Are there any repairs in the pickup circuit? If so, I'd start there.

[ViperRon]

Just as a quick test put your meter on ac scale and measure at 12 going to the TCI for ripple. You have done a lot trying to Isolate the problem and this is just a quick test. My cousin last week had an issue with his car doing all sorts of funny things like it was possessed. Dealer had worked on it several times with no success. I noticed a high pitch squeal from the alternator so we unhooked it and the car run great. Swapped alternator and problems have not returned.