Wire rear wheel for XS11... I have an idea.

[Orange4]

Hi O4,
not everyone has access to the necessary kit.
Absent a lathe big enough to swing a complete wheel and a 10 ton press a pair of welded-on spoke rings may be Joe Amateur's only way forward.
Building your own spoke rings does give you the option of choosing the number of spokes and the size and type of rim you want

Absolutely. This is just another option but welding fabricated rings on to cast aluminum is no amateur job. Welding dissimilar metals is not a home shop job. Even experienced welders find welding cast aluminum a challenge.

The option I'm trying, if it works, is only two major lathe operations (one of which you already need to do for the ring method) plus a press fit. Something you could hire out for a semi reasonable sum.

My next stop is a millwright's shop.

[daveyg]

Wouldn't need that big of lathe really... Take all the spokes out of the GL wheel, the hub by itself is only about 7" diameter (probably less, but I'll overestimate) then take your bent/cracked/otherwise damaged XS rear wheel, saw off the cast spokes as close to the hub as possible, and it may need an 8" swing... My little 1340 lathe could do that job easy enough, and I've a buddy with a 10ton press that'd let me use it free of charge... Hell, even harbor freight has a decent 8x14 lathe for about $900, find somebody with an excuse to buy it and offer them $100 to do the job.

[fredintoon]

Wouldn't need that big of lathe really... Take all the spokes out of the GL wheel, the hub by itself is only about 7" diameter (probably less, but I'll overestimate) then take your bent/cracked/otherwise damaged XS rear wheel, saw off the cast spokes as close to the hub as possible, and it may need an 8" swing... My little 1340 lathe could do that job easy enough, and I've a buddy with a 10ton press that'd let me use it free of charge... Hell, even harbor freight has a decent 8x14 lathe for about $900, find somebody with an excuse to buy it and offer them $100 to do the job.

Hi Davey,
mebbe the best deal is to buy that Japanese model XS750, swap the wheels out and sell it on?
But that'll only work once, eh?
So yeah, de-spoke the wire wheel to swing in an 8" lathe and you are good.
What with the huge contact area, I'd bypass the press fit, make a slip fit instead and glue the thing together with Loktite.
And O4, given an inert gas glove box, a TIG machine, the right filler rod and a skilled operative, you can weld just about anything.

[Orange4]

Wouldn't need that big of lathe really... Take all the spokes out of the GL wheel, the hub by itself is only about 7" diameter (probably less, but I'll overestimate) then take your bent/cracked/otherwise damaged XS rear wheel, saw off the cast spokes as close to the hub as possible, and it may need an 8" swing... My little 1340 lathe could do that job easy enough, and I've a buddy with a 10ton press that'd let me use it free of charge... Hell, even harbor freight has a decent 8x14 lathe for about $900, find somebody with an excuse to buy it and offer them $100 to do the job.

That's what I'm talkin' about.

And O4, given an inert gas glove box, a TIG machine, the right filler rod and a skilled operative, you can weld just about anything.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's a challenge for even an experienced welder to weld an unknown cast aluminum alloy, but you were talking about "Joe Amateur" It may be that the rims are clean, pure castings but who knows?

Welding cast aluminum

[natemoen]

I may be that the rims are clean, pure castings but who knows?

Now that's a funny joke!

I have done some work on a set of these rims. These rims are terrible castings! I was cutting the center ridge off and I found voids relatively frequently.

[crazy steve]

Yamaha used more than one 'grade' of aluminum on these (the calipers in particular seem to be a 'good' grade) but most is pretty crummy. As Nate noted, the wheels aren't so good, and I've found flaws in the metal on most of the bits I've polished too....

[Orange4]

Meeting with a machinist later today. We'll see what he has to say. Shrink fit with locktite, like Fred says, is my vote.

[Orange4]

OK. Had a good talk with the machinist. Much beard stroking ensued.

Looks like it will work. The brake sides of the hubs register nicely. I have to remove the rubber shocks from the GL hub and de-lace it. There will be just a touch of spoke left on the XS drive side but the brake side will be solid with a nice lip we can use as a registration shoulder.

At this point we were thinking of avoiding the shrink fit and going with an interference fit. He was worried about it developing hairline cracks in the outer hub. We touched briefly on a taper fit which he could pull off but didn't make a decision. We might install set screws bisecting the joint to lock it all together and/or some welding once we see how these alloys behave together. I'll bet the GL hub is better stuff as it had to withstand the point loads of the spokes.

Now I need the donor XS wheel to get to chopping spokes.

[Orange4]

Now that's a funny joke!

I have done some work on a set of these rims. These rims are terrible castings! I was cutting the center ridge off and I found voids relatively frequently.

Heh Heh. "Pure" castings. No wonder they are so thick. At least they put the quality where it counts.

[fredintoon]

Meeting with a machinist later today. We'll see what he has to say. Shrink fit with locktite, like Fred says, is my vote.

Hi Marcus,
I never said shrink fit.
What I helped pioneer for the highly stressed races in aircraft landing gear back in the early 1960s was using a clearance fit and Loktite instead of using a press fit.
It's a common practice these days, Loktite even make a compound specific to that purpose.

[Orange4]

OK. Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry if I misquoted you. I will mention that technique to the machinist.

Pretty cool that you pioneered that.

[fredintoon]

Pretty cool that you pioneered that.

Hi Markus,
I was pretty much the junior person (fetch the tea, kid) on that project.
Best you contact Loctite to get a modern take on sticking aluminum parts together.

[Orange4]

Something like this?

Loctite 648 .15mm clearance fit application


Eliminate rotor spin off - Push out load of 9800 kgf
Bonds with 0.15 mm clearance fit
Eliminates interference fits - increased productivity with elimination of hydraulic press process
30% savings due to reduced labor and quality cost

[fredintoon]

Something like this?

Loctite 648 .15mm clearance fit application

Hi Marcus,
please do not confuse my long-ago memory with modern expertise.
Loctite 648 works great for steel on steel but may need Loctite activator (or may perhaps only need hours rather than minutes of set-up time) to work on aluminum to aluminum.
Check with the Loctite guys.

[Orange4]

I'll do that. Just read an article in Classic Bike where they had a oval bearing seat and the Loctite people gave them advice on what to use. I'll get in touch for sure. Don't want this thing coming apart.