Cam Chain adjustment...

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Auto CCT

The Auto CCT does adjust tighter when it feels slack in the chain also, the difference is, it doesn't alow extra slack when pressure is on it as it only moves one way, tighter when loose, but does not add slack ever

Not that I think I would try this, but there is a point that could be made. I have Auto tensioners in a couple of my bikes. Is it not true that these auto CCT's do exactly what he is describing. The spring pressure will simply take up the slack when there is enough. The ratchet part simply keeps it from working against the spring. It is not like the bike naturally stops at the "C" mark on the timing when you shut it off and it auto adjusts then.

[James England]

The ratchet part simply keeps it from working against the spring. It is not like the bike naturally stops at the "C" mark on the timing when you shut it off and it auto adjusts then.

The ratchet stops the tensioner plunger from being forced back when decelerating hard. The auto CCT's are constantly taking up slack (within the limitations of the ratchet teeth size) and don't need C marks or the engine stopping at certain points or anything.

[kwats]

I was a factory mechanic in the 60's for Honda. I shortcutted a cam chain adjustment on a DOHC factory bike at Isle of Mann, bent all the valves, and got my ass chewed in several different languages...
I'll stick with the factory procedures.

[natemoen]

Maybe I over-stated the "loosening" of the adjuster bolt more than I should have. I simply loosen the lock nut, put the wrench on the bolt, hold the wrench on the bolt, back it out just a hair, keep the wrench on the bolt, let it idle for 30 seconds and tighten it back up. It's NOT a warm cam chain as I believe someone mentioned that earlier. The bike is started, idled for 1 minute or so, then the adjustment is done. The chain is cold at that point. In the grand scheme, it's my feeling that a cam chain has to be REALLY loose for it to skip, and I am certain this method does not introduce that level of slack.

The problem is that as people have stated that when doing it that way then it give the chance for the chain to swing out due to the extreme centrifugal force that the chain is under which would then result in a looser chain than when you started. The spring in the cct is not very strong and for the life of me I can't figure out how it has survived all these years without that happening, but I am never going to risk it.

Is it not true that these auto CCT's do exactly what he is describing. The spring pressure will simply take up the slack when there is enough. The ratchet part simply keeps it from working against the spring.

Sort of yes, but it is those ratchets that prevent the actual problem. The ratchets prevent the tensioner from loosening at all so then it can only get tighter never looser.

[Bonz]

XS1100 OEM4ME,

I scanned the handwritten sheet that's stapled into my service manual, I'll get it put up here later today or tomorrow.

[skids]

Long ago, I rolled into a generic motorcycle shop to get an air filter. The mechanic said he could hear my cam chain a block away and he said he wanted to adjust it with the bike running. I suppose some bikes could be done that way. I declined. I think he just needed the work as I had adjusted the chain tension recently (no louder than normal).

I had just replaced a valve and lapped the others due to a slipped cam chain. That was the bike with the stripped stopper bolt hole in the tensioner. As I tightened the stopper bolt, it got "easier" and I stopped, thinking it was good enough. It had just enough sticksion to let the chain bounce the plunger outward and hold it in that position. Disaster!

If you have ever had the tensioner apart, you know that the spring is not very stout. Also, once I tried to rotate the crank by hand while pushing on the cam chain guide to keep it from slipping...it slipped. With these experiences, I follow the standard procedures.

[Ken Talbot]

... It's NOT a warm cam chain as I believe someone mentioned that earlier. The bike is started, idled for 1 minute or so, then the adjustment is done. The chain is cold at that point...

I think that comment was meant to read "worn" chain. The danger I see in this process is trying it with a chain that is worn so much that it actually could skip a tooth if things went wrong.

I'm pretty sure a new chain could not possibly skip a tooth, from what I remember about how hard it was to get a new chain pulled tight enough to get the timing gears back on the cam when I rebuilt Tsunami a while back. Not long after that rebuild, I did a cam chain adjustment 'by the book' while on the road, a long ways from home, and I obviously didn't get it torqued up enough to hold. I fired up and was a couple of hundred yards into a quick test ride, the adjuster let loose, and there was a $#%^% of a noise. I limped carefully back to the cabin we were staying in, did the procedure again, and got it properly tight. My valves were all fine and the noise was just the chain slapping around. Ha, "just" the chain!

I can see the "adjust it while it is idling" working okay until the chain gets to that magic stretch point when it could jump. Would I personally do it that way - no.

YMMV...

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Thanks

Thanks to the guys that are trying to share how it has worked for you, We (at least me and some) are not picking on your results It is just so many factors come into play, chain age, how smooth an idle, and some my have super natural skills with this adjustment, for us mortals, we stick to the old tried and true, can't huff my motor way I never used a timming light on my cars as I had a sixth sense and could set it by ear and get the max preformance that way To all who have that going for you with the CCT, I say, great, to all us who don't, I say, stick with what works for you now

[Rasputin]

As I said I would not do it myself but I was trying to bring a point up for discussion. I succeeded with that. At the age of these bikes and how hard it is to keep them in top running order, I would do it the way we all know. It just made me think a bit and thus my post. Please do not think that I am advocating this procedure.
I must point out as well that during my early years with the XS's that I read when adjusting the CCT you will hear a "click". Not so much. I thought I must have made the adjustment wrong, so I kept trying to get it to adjust. I very easily could have made the wrong move and bent valves.
I strongly recommend that the proper procedure be followed. There is a lot of shortcuts that people know and most will work most of the time. There are also very thoughtful ideas that people come up with that benefit us all. This Forum has many examples and I will point out that Yamaha never produced a 2nd gear fix as one of those.
The thing is do not bust someones balls till it is properly discussed and the merits as well as demerits are pointed out. Who knows we may all learn something here.

[SFerinTEXAS]

One of the best threads in recent memory.Rare things are nice .

[3Phase]

Dynamic or Static Cam Chain Adjustment

The XS1100 is not a Honda.

The CB900 engine uses two cam chains with spring-tensioned cam chain tensioners. The dynamic cam chain adjustment has a tendency to obliterate rare, expensive, parts. The static adjustment takes more time but it's better.


Honda 1980-82 CB900C cam chain adjustment.
Click to enlarge


The XS1100 is not a Honda.

[James England]

I thought very carefully and asked loads of questions, and expressed a great deal of scepticism before....finally.... fitting an auto CCT from a 1300 Venturer (which I had to buy from the USA since we don't have them here). That was thousands of miles ago and with no need to adjust the camchain manually. It's a superb modification and very reassuring to have because I know the camchain is always adjusted correctly. It makes life a lot easier and saves loads of minutes.

So, if minute saving is the rationale for the scary idea of running a valuable vintage engine whilst loosening the camchain, I'd recommend fitting the auto CCT. It's a beefy piece of kit and vastly superior to the OEM

[mack]

Auto cct

I switched to the auto CCT for two reasons. Bending down and reaching for things is hard on my old back so I try to limit it, second, I've burnt my knuckles countless times making the adjustment. Being impatient and not letting the engine cool enough before starting the procedure. Can't imagine sticking my hand in betwwen 2&3 with the motor running at temp. If it wasn't my knuckles on 2, it would be my wrist on 3. I love the auto adjuster. One of the best tips I've ever gleened from this site.

[DAVINCI]

Down another path with the Auto Tensioner

This thread has generated lots of interest, it's as good as they get. Here's another tangent:

I fitted the auto-tensioner last winter. One thing i haven't done since then is check the valve clearances. Now, because the "shim tool" never worked for me, I've always been a proponent of cam removal to swap shims, or if possible, cam cap loosening just enough to get the shim(s) out.

Here's the new path of discussion....

With the OEM tensioner, loosening the lockbolt and cams would be all that needed to be done, 'cause the tensioner is spring loaded and will return to rest as the cams are re-seated.

NOW, with the auto-tensioner, that bugger will take up every bit of slack you give it, but won't give any back. So, the center bolt has to be removed to do the cam juggling, right? Will there be enough slack to raise a cam? Or, do I have to remove the whole damn thing? If anyone has done this, please chime in.

[skids]

[QUOTE=Rasputin;351177] I must point out as well that during my early years with the XS's that I read when adjusting the CCT you will hear a "click". Not so much. IQUOTE]

Yeah, I think the only time you will hear that click is if you had the tensioner off the bike and locked the plunger full back for reinstall. My hearing is not the best, but I have not heard that with other regular tensioning adjustments.