Piston Rings

[b.walker5]

Final Update..

The last word from Hastings..

Good morning Brian~
Our set #2c4451 sells for $44.01 if purchased on a credit card (all oversizes as well). We offer the set as follows:

2C4451 71.0mm (2.7950")
2C4451010 71.2mm (2.8050")
2C4451020 71.4mm (2.8150")
2C4451030 71.75mm (2.8250")
2C4451040 72.0mm (2.8350")
2C4451060 72.5mm (2.8550")

Lisa

This is all the info we need, and the price is certainly right, so happy ordering from those who dont mind the slight oil groove adjustment. It's not a problem to me and I have ordered a set of first over already.

Contact details for Hastings have been posted previously but are as follows;

Lisa M. Townsend
Customer Technical Support Rep.
325 N. Hanover St.
Hastings MI, 49058 USA

Phone: 1.269.945.2491 ext.1390
1.800.776.1088 ext 1390
Fax: 1.269.945.2667
ltownsend@hastingsmfg.com


If they have the time, perhaps someone, maybe even me, could take all this sizing and partnumber info and create a tech tip to be added in the mods forum for future reference.

[b.walker5]

2nd Final Update..

I tried to add this to the previous post but I ran out of time..

Another option work looking into is this;

By using Hasting's own numerical listing on thier website I've found the following vehicles that these rings are fitted to;

Base Part # Top Ring Second Ring Oil Ring
2C4451 1.2mm 1.5mm 3.0mm

Used in OEM Engines
88-95 Mazda 1.3L 1323cc
88-97 Ford Festiva, Mercury 1.3L 1300cc

Probably a more expensive option but may suit those without a credit card or those that all already have an account at ther local Ford dealership. Just remember that our sizes start at the 2nd ovesize for the Ford. i.e 2c4451020

[cycleguy]

Are these rings cast or crome moly?

[b.walker5]

Feel free to browse the Hastings Manufacturing website for any further info, it's all there.

However for the Interweb challenged, the top ring is Chrome over Steel, the 2nd Ring is Taper Faced Cast Iron and the Oil ring is a standard 3 piece ring with Chrome rails. These are the same as standard Yamaha fare.

The answer is in the part # prefix and is explained here..http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Master_Ca...t_Contents.pdf

[BossMaverick]

I need new rings (hopefully that's it at least). Has anyone priced what a machine shop would charge to open the piston gap to .120? Would there be a good way to do it at home? One person mentioned a hack saw blade with emery, but would that get the piston gap even enough all the way around? Assuming my bores measure ok and I just need honing, I would need the stock size rings and not the first oversize, correct?

Finally, this is the parts list I can see for a re-ring job.
-Gasket set
-Rings
-Cam chain

Is there anything I'm forgetting?

[BossMaverick]

To prevent any confusion, when I said piston gap in my above post I meant piston grove. I was having a 1 am brain freeze sorry.

[BossMaverick]

PROBLEM! PROBLEM! PROBLEM!
I was doing some double checking and isn't the stock XS bore 71.5mm? This article http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/46.html is showing 71.5x68.6 for the bore and stroke. To double check this, I then did an engine size calculator I found on google. 71.0x68.6 is showing 1086cc. 71.5x86.6 is showing the correct 1102cc.

Doesn't this mean our options from Hastings is either slightly undersized at 71.4mm or oversized at 71.75mm?

[BossMaverick]

71.0x68.6 is showing 1086cc. 71.5x86.6 is showing the correct 1102cc.

I found a typo, sorry. I meant to type 68.6, not 86.6. Either way, it's 71.5x68.6 that equals 1102 cc.

[BossMaverick]

Ok, I've done more math and more thinking about the XS 71.50mm and these Hastings Ford Festiva 1.3 piston rings. Please try to follow along with the following:

From what I've found (unless the Ford 1.3 is different since it's made by KIA), typical car engines have a .010 (.25mm) to .020 (.50mm) compression ring gap spec. From my seaches of this forum, our XS'es have a .2mm (.0079") to .4mm (.0157) gap spec.

The difference between car gap specs and our XS specs is about .0021" (.05mm) to .0043" (.11mm). To make 71.5mm rings that our XS bores are, you need .020" (.5mm) (or "+2 rings") over the 71.0mm standard rings. This means that perfect 71.5mm car rings (that don't require any fitting out of the box) would have a gap of .25mm (.010") to .50mm (.020"). That would put the ring gap .05mm to .11mm too big on the XS, since the XS specs a smaller gap of .2mm to .4mm.

Think about how this applies to the Hastings ring sets. First, their 71.4mm (listed as 2.8150") rings are either 71.4mm rings or 71.5mm rings (2.815"=71.502mm). Notice Hastings' math error since 71.4 does not equal 2.815". Now the 71.75mm rings (2.825", which is the right conversion) are actually 71.64mm to 71.7mm XS rings when you account for the difference in car versus XS gap specs (the .05mm to .11mm difference). This means that if you cylinder bores that have worn at least .14mm (.0055"), the 71.75mm rings will be a perfect fit for a XS ring job. Now if Hasting's 71.4mm are actually 71.4mm and not 71.5mm rings, they could be .15" to .21" too small for the XS.

So according to all the math, Hasting's 71.4/71.5mm rings are too small*. Hasting's 71.75mm rings would be close to perfect with being just a tiny bit oversized like it should be to allow for fitting**.

*In real life, I'm assuming Hasting's makes their rings with a little extra material to allow for fitting them in the car cylinder bores to the proper gaps (and providing the 71.4mm rings are actually 71.5mm rings which I suspect), the 71.5mm ring set would probably make the .2mm to .4mm gap out of the box in a brand new 71.50mm XS bore or one that has very very very little wear.

**Here is my overall conclusion for people looking for a "standard" replacement ring set for a tired XS: We need to treat the 71.75mm Hastings ring set as the "standard to +1/2 size". The 71.75mm rings will most likely require a little fitting, but it should be them same amount of fitting like a "standard" set of rings requires.

My disclaimor: I've been up all night, I may have made a mistake somewhere in my math. I'm also not that experienced in rebuilding engines. Someone might respond to say I'm completely wrong and they might be right. Either way, it's best to measure your cylinder bores before ordering the rings so you know exactly what you need. Just keep in mind when ordering there is a hair's difference between car spec'd and XS spec'd rings (the car rings being a hair smaller for XS applicatons), so if your bores are on the edge of the two sizes, order the larger size.

Now that I've done the work to figure out which is the better ring set, someone needs to figure out a "do it yourself" process of enlarging the piston's oil ring grove.

[tarzan]

All cylinders in my motor measured within .002 of stock after 46,000 miles,
I doubt over .005 wear would be common.My pistons also have evidence
of lack of ample oiling at some point too.

As for Hastings giving wrong information, if you have questions, you should call them and ask.They have been in the business of making rings for a while,so I bet they are pretty accurate.And they were given all the info on our machines piston and cylinders.

I do agree that some of the ring sizes appear to be too small for our machines, but I figure they were just posting out of a listing to show they have something that works.You are probably right about 71.75 rings being the ones she is recommending.

Does you're head hurt after all that thinking.Winter seems to give us way too much time on our hands.lol.And I too spend lots of time overthinking whatever current project I am working on.

[b.walker5]

All cylinders in my motor measured within .002 of stock after 46,000 miles,
I doubt over .005 wear would be common.My pistons also have evidence
of lack of ample oiling at some point too.

As for Hastings giving wrong information, if you have questions, you should call them and ask.They have been in the business of making rings for a while,so I bet they are pretty accurate.And they were given all the info on our machines piston and cylinders.

I do agree that some of the ring sizes appear to be too small for our machines, but I figure they were just posting out of a listing to show they have something that works.You are probably right about 71.75 rings being the ones she is recommending....

Thankyou Tarzan, my thoughts exactly. If perfect rings are needed, buy OEM Yamaha or get em' made. For something that will work perfectly okay with a little tweaking, at less than quarter the OEM price, go to Hastings.

[Crazcnuk]

Exactly. Many of us have been filing 1st over rings to fit standard bores, becasue we can't get standard rings from Yamaha.

[Orange4]

Has anyone installed a set of these rings? How did they fit?

Thanks.

[natemoen]

Has anyone installed a set of these rings? How did they fit?

Thanks.

I have first over rings in mine and on a cold engine with carbs on I was getting around 170 psi for compression.

[ViperRon]

Ok here is the real problem with doing this in the Yamaha XS1100. I have put oversize in cars trucks etc no issue but when I put second oversize rings in using the original pistons the bike run great compression good no oil burning all went well for about 2000 miles then a noise became louder and louder. It was shirt slap. If the clearance on the skirt does not exceed the max its ok to put those pistons back in. If the pistons exceed the max allowance then I am sure in time the rings will wobble wearing till you get the skirt slap i did. You can see the wear in the cylinders and on the skirts and i imagine in time oil burning and possible piston breakage. Its a short time solution if you exceede specs.