'80 XS850 Special - Here we go again.....

[Radioguylogs]

It's all part of the challenge = fun? The bigger the challenge, the better the reward feels, right?

I have lots of XS750 carb parts I could volunteer, but they are Mikuni. I also have a complete Mikuni rack I wouldn't miss.

However, if it would my bike, I would want to keep it original (Hitachi).

Let me know if you want the Mikuni rack.

[kboehringer]

I also have a complete Mikuni rack I wouldn't miss.

Mike & XS Friends,

I MAY eventually take you up on the offer, but I will try to find a replacement Hitachi. I'm certainly more comfortable with a Mikuni carb as most of my other machines have them (excluding: SECA). However, the Hitachi is very interesting and certainly a new challenge.....

The yard owner offered to be very "Helpful" with me for repair parts on this machine and I will take him up on the offer! I KNOW there are SEVERAL XS triples in the yard (some with carbs on them) and there must be a set of Hitachi's in his carb storage area. Unfortunately, it will be a couple weeks before I can run over there on a Saturday morning (over an hour away) and hunt for the needed piece(s). I can do much better at the yard than the >$100 for a #2 I've seen on Evil-Bay.

I thought about this a bit lately and what I need to do now is SLOW DOWN!! This is NOT a race against anyone but me.....

Typically, I grab a new machine and go head over heals bustin' my butt to get it running & done. The original "Vision" for this machine was a nice OEM stock machine. A few of my bikes could "loosely" be referred to as restored while others are clearly a very large deviation from OEM. I like the OEM better, and this machine has the potential to EVENTUALLY be a nice OEM example. The XS850 hasn't been cut up and beat up like most of my machines have, although it has certainly been mistreated by the PO. Taking a little more time will assure it returns to the original vision.

That said, I like to do a little "Something" each day on the machine......even if only a tiny repair or clean-up project on an individual part. The last few days I've been struggling to find a location for an upgraded fuse box (a deviation from OEM I consider essential to ease of use and reliability).

• I have a spare fuse box kit for the XS11 that just won't work with the XS850 (photo 1)
  • Another guy used one of these but left the cover off the box.... not sure about that one.
• I've pulled the fuse box from a spare FJ1200 harness and it will be a better choice (photo 2).
• Unfortunately, the special seat pan will not allow either unit in the OEM location.
• I've considered putting the fuse box inside the tool bin (eliminating the ability to carry any tools).
• The other choice appears to be up under the tank (not exactly "ease of use")
• I'm tinkering around to see if I can get the panel in just below the rear seat stops.... still tinkering.

XS1100 Upgrade Box

FJ1200 OEM Box

Deliveries, Orders, Etc.

• The replacement cylinder head showed up today. Despite the absolute WORST packing job ever seen, the head showed up basically un-damaged. The studs that protrude from the bottom of the head at the lower cam chain attachment are junk and will need to be replaced. These studs were sticking out of the box and got scrubbed or rubbed on the floor of the USPS truck and my concrete walkway and they are all beat up. Otherwise, the head looks to be in exceptional condition. I should be able to pull those studs out of the garbage head with relative ease....
• A full replacement gasket set arrived from Scrambler Cycle so the gaskets are here and ready.
• I ordered the cam chain master links from Partzilla (along with a few bits for several other bikes). Again unfortunately, Partzilla won't ship until everything is ready in one package. Seemed a couple items (FJ1200) were coming from Japan so i called and cancelled those parts in order to get the Cam Master Links headed my direction quicker...... I'll order the FJ1200 parts again ALONE so they don't hold up other items.
• I ordered (Nancy actually) a complete set of Hitachi rebuild kits... probably be here in a few days.

The SLOW DOWN plan....
Since I'm already in the top end, why not just go a little further and replace the piston rings? I wasn't able to get crap on the compression test (certainly because of the head problems) but rings are like $40 total for all three sets so I might as well jut do that too, give the cylinders a quickie hone, and replace the base gasket(s) etc....Hell I'm 90% there with the head off!.. Then I know I have a really good top end.

I'll check the Yard for a set of Hitachi's and keep an eye on Evil-Bay too....

A bit of creative fabrication and I MAY just be able to FIX the #2 carb.... Take some time, study the problem, do a 5-whay, an RCA, maybe a full blown Six-Sigma and fix the darn thing - LOL

The bike hasn't any brakes (not that function) so I can tinker with those a bit too...

Any additional thoughts?

KURT - AKA Speed Racer

[Radioguylogs]

I have to say, you are incredibly motivated once you get a bike project going.

My MO is to go out in the garage each night after the wife goes to bed and putz on my current project for a couple of hours. Whatever I get done is fine. When it gets done, it gets done. There are other bikes to ride in the meantime. (I know that's a big problem for you, Kurt )

I would freshen the jugs like you are thinking because it's very little extra effort, especially since you already own the $200 brush hone.

One thing about the heads- the tach gear is a frequent source of oil leaks, where the tach cable goes into the head. Mine leaked profusely for a long time before I took the effort to understand it. It's an easy fix, even after the bike is assembled,... but it's one of those "while you're at it" jobs. When you remove the gear, you will see the O-ring easily. What is harder to see is the oil seal inside the housing. That's the part many folks never figure out because it's hard to see . It's cheap and easy to replace the seal and the O-ring (less than $10), and the parts are available at Partzilla (now that you just paid the flat rate shipping twice this week).

Enjoy the journey- you do it for fun, not because you have to.

[kboehringer]

XS Friends,

The HItachi problem is solved............


Called the yard, cried a little, bitched a little, cried some more..... The owner told me to come on over, he had what I needed.

So, after all my crying I had to run across town at 4:00pm OMG WHAT A MESS IN THE ATL crossing from WEST to EAST and then BACK WEST into the city, then SOUTH OF ATL all in the MIDDLE OF THE FRIDAY RUSH. All that insanity was worth the effort.... I THINK!

The set he gave me is far from complete but it does have a good #1 & good #2 "body". The #3 is junk (aka broken post). I have the parts necessary to repair the Hitachi's

Kurt

[dpotter58]

Love that creepin kroil.

[jetmechmarty]

Again unfortunately, Partzilla won't ship until everything is ready in one package.

I started using PartShark for my OE parts source. So far, my experience has been that they are cheaper than Partzilla and I get a quick response to my order. If the parts are not in stock, they let me know and offer to change to order to what they have rather than have me wait two months before anything is shipped. This is my experience with three orders. They also offer UPS shipping for those willing to pay for it.

[Radioguylogs]

Based on Marty's suggestion earlier, I sent a couple of my orders to PartShark, and I was also pleased with the price and service.

[kboehringer]

XS Friends,
Unfortunately, I now have PLENTY of time to work on the XS850.

On Monday, my employer STOPPED ALL PRODUCTION at our facility. Our largest customer has had a "shake-up" in management and a large reduction in their sales. Overall, MY company has too much capacity and not nearly enough work, prospects for the future with the largest customer don't look too good. It was time to stop the bleeding. ALL employees (175 +/-) were given a severance package of 60-days pay and full benefits for that period and then asked to leave. OFFICIALLY, I'm till employed until 5/22 and will receive weekly pay until that time. So, I've been "Out of Work" for 2.5 days and between submitting online applications for a new job, I have spent a great deal of time on the XS850. Thankfully (or not), I ordered several parts before I received the news. I should have enough parts to get it running but will avoid any additional expenses until new employment is found.

That said, one can do a whole lot in two days....even after: cleaning the gutters, repairing the fence, repairing a couple shingles, cutting the lawn, re-seeding the grass, etc.. Besides, the distraction keeps me from worry about the future.

The oil pan was a mess on the outside and similarly disgusting on the inside.... It got a bath in my ultrasonic washer and was treated to a new gasket and Yamabond 4..... It's back on now nice and pretty & clean (inside & out).


I had started on the carbs and set them aside.... Picked those up again today and got them done... WHAT A MESS!
Those from the south know what a Mud Dabber is.... Seems they LOVE Carbs.... They had made a home in ALL THREE of the carb tops..... That's what ya get with no air filter system installed (thanks to Mike I have one now)!


Thankfully, I received the three full Hitachi rebuild kits with all new jets. There is absolutely NO WAY to get these out without destroying them, they are held in place by a metal bridge and each jet has an o-ring to seal it (not screwed in like a Mikuni) On a Mikuni, if your safe & slow you can clean the comparable parts and reuse, NOT on a Hitachi. There is absolutely NO WAY to grab these and pull them out, there is NOTHING to grab!. I had to drill them out a little, install a drywall screw and YANK them out. Obviously, that process destroys the jet. Similarly, under each jet(3) is an "Emulsion tube" also impossible to remove, especially when all gummed up. Fortunately, the "Drywall Screw Method" also removed these but without damage.

How the HECK is one supposed to pull these out (3 each in the centers) with absolutely nothing to grab? Even clean and new, there is no way to remove without destruction!


Dirty Emulsion tubes


Clean emulsion tubes (love that BRASS wire wheel).


A pile of destroyed jets and needle seats.


Carbs are done (ready to start). Yes. I will replace the hoses. The "T"s got new VITON o-rings thanks to McMaster-Carr Supply Co. (100 pieces @ <$5) advertised on Evil-bay for >$7 plus shipping for TWO(2) .



Since I have the "Extra Time" and I was planning on doing it anyway.... Pulled the cylinders. Actually looks a LOT better than the last XS11 did... But this bike has only 17k miles so they shouldn't be as bad as the XS11 with 69k on the ticker.


I also finished preparing the cylinder head.....
Before Photo


After Photo
All new Valve Seals, Valves cleaned and polished (a little), gasket surfaces prepared for installation. Again, not too bad on the carbon build-up as one would expect from only 17k miles.


I think that's it for today... OOOPS, I pulled apart the front master cylinder and it's in the Ultrasonic now... Sorry no photos of that.

UNEMPLOYED - KURT

[cajun31]

Kurt, Sorry to hear about your job situation. Bummer for sure and I hope that you find something soon. With this pandemic dwindling down, hopefully the job market will open back up. Good to see you are making progress on the bike. I was just wondering that if you had soaked those carb bodies in the gallon can version of Berryman's if those jets and tube might have loosed up without having to destroy them. When I say soak I mean for several days.

[kboehringer]

Jim,
Thanks for the concern about the Job (or lack thereof). I should be able to find something before too long. Sitting around the house doing misc. chores isn't really all that fun. I don't know how the unemployed can stand this.

Regarding the Berryman's and soaking: I did soak the replacement carb (#2) for quite a while certainly more than a day, it made no difference. Problem is there is NOTHING protruding to "Grab" and no way to get behind the jets to push them out. Even new and perfectly clean, the O-ring around each jet really has a good hold on it. Obviously the "hole" in the jet is very small so pushing a seal pick or similar into it to grab and pull is impossible too. The center jet has a little protrusion and it could be pulled with a set of pliers. BUT, if you grab that one too hard it will crush. I'm a pretty decent mechanic and cant figure out how the heck or what tool would be used to get these out without damage. I even tried compressed air (120 psi) from the opposing side (up in the upper body) without success.

Today's update - We've had a little setback!

With the help of Nancy, I got the thoroughly cleaned pistons and new rings installed and the jugs back on. A REAL pita to get these in. Cylinders have been honed and the ring end gaps were nearly perfect at the lower end of the acceptable range .023


Unfortunately, it appears there was some existing damage to the chain guide (forward one) and it snapped off at the base.

You will note it looks like it has been beat to heck and back already. I'm actually thinking this dumbass PO tried to start the machine with the cam partially disassembled. Can't figure out how otherwise this was damaged and there were chunks of aluminum in the cam area otherwise. Anyway, this part is available new from Partshack. But, I found a used one for cheap which should be here in a day or two.

I also found that my "Complete" gasket kit did not include the oil passage seals (2 at bottom of cylinders and 2 at top of cylinder). These are NOT available form either PartShack or Partzilla. They look like o-rings, but are very different. Fortunately, I saved the old ones and they look fine. I coated them with my DOW o-ring grease/sealant and they should be just fine.


I would love to get the head on the machine which would allow me to install the exhaust and carbs even if I can't install the cams and mend the chain back together. I need to pull the left engine side cover to see If I can get the replacement guide in there with the head on. I'll also check the instructions in Clymer. If it can be done, I will get the head on the bike this will also allow me to consolidate a bunch of parts (currently laying about the garage) back onto the machine.

I'll get something done on the bike today... I have few chores remaining and PLENTY of time as I await the phone to ring.

KURT

[Radioguylogs]

Sitting around the house doing misc. chores isn't really all that fun. I don't know how the unemployed can stand this.

...I also found that my "Complete" gasket kit did not include the oil passage seals (2 at bottom of cylinders and 2 at top of cylinder). These are NOT available form either PartShack or Partzilla. They look like o-rings, but are very different. Fortunately, I saved the old ones and they look fine...

... I need to pull the left engine side cover to see If I can get the replacement guide in there with the head on. I'll also check the instructions in Clymer.

(1) I like siting around the house (napping), and doing home improvement.

(2) You probably know those O rings have a D-shaped cross-section and the they have to be put back in with the flat side up, or there will be an oil leak (p 82 Clymer). My Athena kit had round O-rings to replace the originals, but I chose to use the original ones instead and I had no leaks.

(3) You can't get to the cam chain guide from the LH cover. You just see the side of the crankcase when you remove it. I suspect you have to go in through the oil pan.

(4) I made these "forks" to hold the pistons from flopping while you drop on the jugs- I saw the idea and dimensions in the the FSM or Clymer:

[2WheelFun]

Wow, 175 employees being laid off certainly stings the community. Hopefully you will find gainful employment again soon. I have a sneaky suspicion that this nasty inflation will lead to more of these types of stories.

You sure are making great progress on the XS!

[kboehringer]

(3) You can't get to the cam chain guide from the LH cover. You just see the side of the crankcase when you remove it. I suspect you have to go in through the oil pan.

Mike,
Thanks for the note. I have a pair of those wooden supports identical to yours. I also found the dimensions in the Clymer. Unfortunately they were up in the attic as I put them away after the XS11 jug job and was too lazy to go get them.

I found that you actually can get to the chain guides, the starter clutch and a couple other little items from the left side cover. Of course, that was after fighting like heck with the "EPA Screws" that are designed for us NOT to be able to adjust the timing. After a considerable amount of time with left drill bits, and easy outs I got those nasty little no-head screws out and the side cover revealed the inner workings of the cam chain area.

I shouldn't have any difficulty slipping the new guide down the cam chain tunnel with the head installed. I can just bolt it in and then finish the cam shaft installs and mend the chain. Might just go and put the head on now.....It will certainly be done this wekend.


Kurt

[Radioguylogs]

In the immortal word of Rosanna Rosanna Danna:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg

I've been in there a lot of times and never realized the purpose of those bolts. Glad you figured it out despite my post.

PS: I received a package of goodies today.

THANK YOU!!!!!

[Radioguylogs]

BTW, that little locating pin on the end of the crankshaft has caused serious grief for many Triple owners.

It sometimes gets pushed into the crankshaft and will no longer serve the function to locate the timing lobe. At that point, it's a big problem because you can't get it out and it's probably hardened. Nobody can figure why Yamaha made it so that was possible.

I suspect that the guys that had trouble might have tightened down the crankshaft bolt when the pin wasn't properly seated in the receiving slot, pushing the pin flush into crankshaft.

There is a mod to prevent this issue, but I never had any trouble because I tried to be aware when I assembled it.

Looking forward to reading more.....your progress is impressive.