Weird electrical question

[motoman]

Naw, Okie's running great. This is just minor. I would hop on him and ride anywhere. No worries.

I just want to be able to charge my stinkin' phone!

.......just for instances like this..........and the credit card.

[motoman]

The kill switch is in the ignition resistor circuit on the SG. As far as I can see it has nothing to do with the charging circuit. It just kills the power to the resistor in the stop position.

True, but I would think that would also only come into play in the START position. The key ON/RUN is same circuit......which includes the kill switch to complete circuit in the ON position, no matter what year/model it is.
Been wrong before, but that only makes sense to me. Heck, the whole darn start/charging system is a copy of the 70's early 80's Chrysler anyways.

[BA80]

Have you got a schematic there? Take a look.

[motoman]

Have you got a schematic there? Take a look.

I do......3Phase even put it in my computer....in livid color! But, that makes smoke come out my ears decifering it......mentally lazy I guess. I've just learned from experience, and in the XS11's wiring's case, Scott has physically showed me the rest of the whys and where's, otherwise I would'nt even be pointing you to all the places the smoke can escape(and you definitely are missin' some).
Sure, rev it up and all's good with the charging rate making up the smoke loss, but that don't fix the problem.
I would even go so far as hooking a remote starter to the solinoid, key off, and volt meter on battery and see where the volts drop to while cranking over starter........may be a redneck way of a battery load test, but if it drops below 10.5v while cranking, you definitely ALSO have a battery issue.
If you don't seem to be getting good longivvity from a battery, WITHOUT a batt. tender.......and I'm talkin' 6-9yrs..... then you likely got resistance from slowly failing connections everything from ignition switch/stop switch affecting regulaters correct charging rate right back to battery. That's not saying ALL those are culprit, but somewhere through all that loop your missin' needed volts.
You already proved that to me with those voltage numbers.
The bottom line is, whatever that battery voltage is showing staticly WITH key on should be matched identical at the every prim. ignition location. Any loss.....and you got an issue, period. Well, cept for 3Phase finding a .03millivolt loss through kill switch when we completed the diagnoses and fix. Normal laymen meters would'nt even show that.

[motoman]

Naw, Okie's running great. This is just minor. I would hop on him and ride anywhere. No worries.

I just want to be able to charge my stinkin' phone!

Greg,
I understand wanting the friggin' cell phone to work........and that's an easy fix.......if ya' wanna just keep throwin' MORE direct connections at the battery, but that ain't gonna fix what's really goin on. That's a band-aid at best, and your gonna wind up unnecessarily needing that cell phone.......at the worst possible time and place(with no service showing), if the REAL issue isn't resolved. Just tryin' to keep you from having issues out on the road buddy.....and that's where this PARTICULAR issue is headed if not resolved.

[BA80]

So, what your saying is I'm getting advice from a mentally lazy person with an overloaded brain smoking out the ears?

I know exactly what you are saying but in this case I don't believe the low voltage is the issue simply because it's ALSO low KOEO and it works then. Voltage is voltage. The only other factor between KOEO and KOER there is the charging system. Excessive ripple.

We'll see.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Greg,

With KOEO the battery only has to feed a few circuits....most aren't putting a load on it, and so there's enough voltage to feed the aux/fairing plug.
With the KOER with the 80SG, the headlights, the ignition system, the dash/running lights, are all putting a drain on the battery and circuits. We know that the OEM charging system doesn't work well especially at idle so much so that it will drain the battery if it idles too long vs. at the 2500 + rpm range where the ALT and the R/R can then generate enough juice to feed/charge back the battery. SO...even though I'm not any kind of electrical guru(thanks for the vote of confidence though Brant) I agree with him in that you are loosing "some" of the magic smoke, but that having less voltage with KOER at idle is real. If you do have a spare R/R to throw on it to test it, that could help confirm the low KOER voltage condition!?!? YMMV

T.C.

[motoman]

So, what your saying is I'm getting advice from a mentally lazy person with an overloaded brain smoking out the ears?


.............only in Colorado.

[BA80]

Hey Greg,

With KOEO the battery only has to feed a few circuits....most aren't putting a load on it, and so there's enough voltage to feed the aux/fairing plug.
With the KOER with the 80SG, the headlights, the ignition system, the dash/running lights, are all putting a drain on the battery and circuits. We know that the OEM charging system doesn't work well especially at idle so much so that it will drain the battery if it idles too long vs. at the 2500 + rpm range where the ALT and the R/R can then generate enough juice to feed/charge back the battery. SO...even though I'm not any kind of electrical guru(thanks for the vote of confidence though Brant) I agree with him in that you are loosing "some" of the magic smoke, but that having less voltage with KOER at idle is real. If you do have a spare R/R to throw on it to test it, that could help confirm the low KOER voltage condition!?!? YMMV

T.C.

Yeah, I have several regulators and I'm gonna swap one out and see if that makes a diff.

Someone asked earlier if I had the headlight relay bypassed, yes I do. The headlight comes on with the key so that is a constant draw when the ignition switch is on.

[BA80]

And the USB adapter company that's making fractions of a cent profit per widget doesn't have to replace the undervolted $25,000 laptop that Daddy Warbucks bought for Little Orphan Annie to design doll clothes, doll houses, and keep cute pictures of her dog Sandy.

.

Since the output for this USB power adapter is only 1.5v @ 2 amps I cant see where a little less than 12v going in could affect it.

I changed regulators and no difference. I'll go try and get another adapter here in a little bit. This one may just be too sensitive for this charging system.

[jetmechmarty]

Greg,
I believe I'm having similar issues. My XS11 has been on the back burner and my back burner isn't working because there is way too much stuff on it. These old connectors seem to lose conductivity over time, and that time keeps getting shorter. I'm going to be taking all the connectors, ignition switch, and kill switch apart again, and clean them as soon as I am able. A little corrosion can cause plenty of electrons to struggle in passage and make heat instead of going were you want them.


Here's Brent searching for my open circuit on the way to XS East 2013. The bike died at a traffic light in Franklin, NC.

[BA80]

Ol' grumpy Brent.

Yeah, I do need to do that I'm sure but not right this minute. I'm going to try another adapter to see what happens first.

I'm sure a lot of things will work better with some cleaning and a new fuse panel. Up to this point though I haven't had an issue in 6 years.

Lucky I guess.

[3Phase]

Since the output for this USB power adapter is only 1.5v @ 2 amps I cant see where a little less than 12v going in could affect it.

I changed regulators and no difference. I'll go try and get another adapter here in a little bit. This one may just be too sensitive for this charging system.

Your USB adapter should be sourcing +5V @ 500mA to 2A as negotiated by the device -- except when it isn't!

With three major USB specs, a few minor revisions within the majors and manufacturers rolling their own with all of them, USB charging is more complicated than just sticking a couple of alligator clips on a rechargeable battery and walking a way for a couple of hours. Building and selling a safe USB charger for the general public is almost an oxymoron and similar to finding mines with a stereotypical Polish Mine Detector.

Extreme Tech's article :-
How USB charging works, or how to avoid blowing up your smartphone



XS11 low-voltage fixes:

Clean the connectors from the battery to the Fuse Block.
Don't forget to clean up the 30A Main Fuse.
The alternator connector under the side cover probably needs a little TLC too.

Extra work but only needs to be done once to pay off:

Skip the stock #14 stock wires from the battery to the Fuse Block.
Run a #10 jumper wire to the Ignition Switch and a #12 to the Fuse Block.
Don't forget the 30A Main Fuse if you use a jumper.
Don't get lazy and leave any of the original wiring unless you like rANdOm fusible links.


This isn't to thump my own chest -- okay, maybe a little bit! , just what's possible: the voltage at the Fuse Block and every other point in the wiring harness on my '80G is within a few millivolts of battery voltage. That was with the stock XS11 alternator and R/R, before I added the XJ11 alternator and R/R.

As a dumb but sort of useful example, the turn signals all flash at the same rate and keep working with just battery voltage; Key On/Engine Off with the headlight on (Headlight Relay is bypassed) and during long idle times at stoplights when the voltage is supposed to drop. Of course the self-cancel circuit works perfectly too and shuts off the signals whenever it feels like it is the least appropriate, most annoying or both.

.

[BA80]

Went to the family dollar store and got $5 Chinese adapter and this one is working fine.

This one is 5v @ 700ma. It only has one USB port though, my others had 2. Oh well.

[3Phase]

Went to the family dollar store and got $5 Chinese adapter and this one is working fine.

This one is 5v @ 700ma. It only has one USB port though, my others had 2. Oh well.

That'll work great! for charging a 99 cent Chinese phone from the dollar store.

.