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  • #46
    Original coils were 1.5 ohm coils with a 1.5 ohm resistor equaling 3 ohms. Green coils and late model coils are already 3 ohm thus eliminating the need for the 1.5 ohm resistor. From my understanding is that the resistance fron the coils and reluctor limits the draw on the tci.
    Nathan
    KD9ARL

    μολὼν λαβέ

    1978 XS1100E
    K&N Filter
    #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
    OEM Exhaust
    ATK Fork Brace
    LED Dash lights
    Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

    Green Monster Coils
    SS Brake Lines
    Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

    In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

    Theodore Roosevelt

    Comment


    • #47
      Interesting article on this question.
      Most powersports vehicles (motorcycles, ATVs, personal watercraft, snowmobiles, scooters, and utility vehicles) come with resistor spark plugs, resistive spark plug wire, or resistor spark plug caps. Many have more than one of these things, and a few have all three. Just what are resistive ignition components for, and why do we need them?

      The What and Why of Resistive Ignition Components
      An ignition coil is a transformer. It has two electrical windings, that is, a primary winding and a secondary winding. The primary winding, depending on the system, is either turned on or off, and the resulting appearance or loss of magnetism induces voltage in the secondary winding. Because the windings vary considerably in size, this voltage is stepped up tremendously into the thousands of volts necessary to fire the spark plug. However, this high-voltage release is very messy (electronics techs call it electrically "noisy"), that is, it crackles and pops. The electrical noise presents two problems. First, it creates electrical emissions that coincide with radio transmission wavelengths. This radio frequency interference (RFI) intrudes on electronic communications to the point that it can cause Jay Leno to stand on his head on your neighbor’s TV! You can imagine the difficulty with emergency and law enforcement communications. The second problem, and one less known, is that an ignition system’s electrical noise also creates an electrical backlash in the ignition system that unchecked can interfere with the system’s integrity. RFI can also interfere with other electrical components on the vehicle, particularly the more sensitive solid-date electronics. Adding a carefully-chosen resistor to the ignition system’s secondary winding dampens the spark’s electrical noise, with little effect on plug voltage, since there is a surplus of unused voltage at the coil anyway. This damping is much like the muting of a tone on a guitar string with your finger on the string at the fret. The note is the same, the vibration and tone are different.

      The Effect of RFI on Communications
      However, not all vehicles use resistive ignition secondary components for the same reason. There are four different applications of resistive technology on powersports vehicles. To begin with, on virtually all machines, the aforementioned RFI suppression for the sake of preserving electronic communications is the goal. In other words, the resistor plugs, wires, or caps are there to control electrical emissions that would otherwise interfere with radio and TV reception.

      The Effect of Electrical Backlash on Ignition Components
      Second, on some offroad vehicles, resistive secondary components of a slightly different specification are present to reduce the electrical backlash that spark creates in the coil’s primary winding. This unwanted electrical feedback is harmful to the parts that drive the ignition system, particularly the ignition control modules (CDI boxes, igniters). Motocross bikes use resistive secondaries to protect the CDI boxes.

      The Effect of RFI on Ignition Components
      Third, also on offroad vehicles, resistive technology is used to reduce RFI-related malfunctions of ignition control modules that are close enough to the ignition coil to be subject to these strong, nearby radio waves. The CDI boxes or igniters on these machines are mounted close to the ignition coils, and therefore need RFI protection. Personal watercraft in particular, but also offroad motorcycles and ATVs, employ resistor technology to cope with this proximity RFI issue.

      The Effect of Both Backlash and RFI on Onboard Microprocessors
      Finally, any vehicle that has an onboard computer, no matter how basic, makes use of resistive ignition secondaries to ensure the protection of that computer and its many sensors from both RFI and electrical backfeed problems. Thus virtually all modern road bikes and every other powersports vehicle, whether or not it is fuel-injected, which has some form of computerized engine management system, therefore has resistors in its ignition system to protect these computers and related components.

      Modern Vehicle Maintenance Issues
      The outcome of all this is that one must be very careful when replacing spark plugs or servicing the secondary side of the ignition system on any of these vehicles. There are many late model personal watercraft and sport bikes for example that won’t even start if the plugs are not the right type, so sensitive are these systems to the issues already described. Other vehicles are not as sensitive, and will at least run, but will run poorly and/or do other odd things. These vehicles have resistor spark plug caps to protect their instrumentation as well. They will turn on their panel indicator lights, wiggle their gauges around, and do other strange things if connectivity to the resistors is faulty, or if non-resistor spark plugs are installed in them.

      Older Vehicle Maintenance Issues
      However, no road bikes made before 1979, and only a handful made before 1990, fit into more than the first of the four categories mentioned previously. That is, most vintage streetbikes have resistor plugs or caps only as a concession to the worldwide concern for the protection of radio communications. They do not have electronics onboard that are sensitive to either RFI or backfeed, and there are of course no computers to worry about. It is not unusual therefore for restorers and modifiers of these older machines to convert their ignition systems to non-resistor specification. The benefit of doing so is two-fold. First, there is obviously one less thing to go wrong. Ignition secondary resistors are usually carbon-based, and therefore deteriorate rather quickly. Eliminating the resistors in these systems simply eliminates them as a maintenance item. Second, removing the secondary resistance often increases potential ignition coil output, because it frees up more of the coil’s voltage reserve to be applied to the spark plug. The real-world gain is the ability to use a larger spark plug gap, with the attendant increase in combustion efficiency that is often realized as quicker starts, smoother idle, and better throttle response – most of the same things high output coils offer, but without their cost.

      Resistive Ignitions on Automotive vs. Powersports Systems
      But, beware of thinking automotive when servicing or modifying one of these older bikes. Cars and motorcycles are thought by many people to be very similar in technology, but in many ways they are not. The two industries have traditionally taken very different approaches to many areas of design and manufacture, and spark suppression is just one example. We have already examined the fact that motorcycle manufacturers (Harley excepted, as with other things) put the resistors on the ends of the spark plug wires. That is, inside the plug caps. They have also always used plain stranded metal wire (stainless steel in Asian motorcycles). That is, good old-fashioned electrically conductive stuff. Car makers on the other hand add the resistor, not in the plug cap, but in the wire, by making the wire itself resistive, i.e. "suppressive." (Sounds like a dictatorial regime, doesn't it?) The wire is not really wire at all, but a mixture of carbon and fibreglas. It is therefore very resistive. Unfortunately, it is also, due to the materials from which it is made, very subject to deterioration and very difficult to make good electrical connections with. This is why the car world replaces spark plug wires very frequently.

      Aftermarket Spark Plug Wires
      But you don’t ever need to replace the spark plug wires on Asian bikes, unless they are broken or badly corroded. (Harleys and the odd Euro bike are excepted because, like cars, they have resistive wires, not caps.) You should however unscrew the spark plug caps occasionally and do two things. First, resistance-test the caps. Pre-1990 systems should generally ohm under 5k while a few of the later ones will be 15k. Check the manual. Second, occasionally trim a little of the spark plug wire off the end so that the cap has fresh surface to bite on when reinstalled. If you do replace the wires due to their being too short or because of breakage, be careful. It has become very difficult in recent years to find good spark plug wire. Most of the wire sets sold for bikes are simply repackaged auto wire kits, containing automotive type suppressive wire. The stuff is junk, no matter how nicely colored, because it is made of non-wire material. You also don’t need to add any more resistance to the system. So keep that stuff away from your bike. Ask your local motorcycle shop to order it, not from automotive companies, but from Parts Unlimited and a few other suppliers. You can also go to a good old fashioned auto parts store and ask for Delco brand Packard 440 spark plug wire, which is 7mm, copper wire used on cars in the 1950s. It comes on a 100 ft. roll, part number 1851208. Either of these is very close to what the Asian manufacturers used stock. You then attach old-fashioned non-resistor automotive terminals and covers, and you’re done.

      Kettering System Spark Plug Wires
      The really old (pre-1979) points (Kettering) ignition systems had unique ignition coils. The coils on these bikes often have the wires molded in place. That is, the wire is not conventionally removable. It is possible, if necessary, to repair a bad wire on one of these old style coils by removing and replacing the wire, but it is a tricky operation. The wire must be extracted with a pick and the new one epoxied in because now the hole is enlarged. There are also spark plug wire splice kits available, but they make a really poor repair that will likely corrode, get loose, and leak voltage. It’s best to replace either the wire or the coil. One of the best replacement coils for old Hondas is the pair from a 1975 through 1979 Gold Wing. With longish wires that can be trimmed to size and higher than average potential voltage output, these easy-to-mount coils are plentiful on the used market and a very good choice. You might also consider buying a used coil of undetermined quality just for the spark plug wires, as whatever condition the coil is in, the wires have to be good if not broken.

      To summarize, there is more than one reason powersports vehicles have secondary resistance in their ignition systems. Most all address communications concerns, but many also protect themselves with their resistor plugs, wires, or caps. You must be careful when servicing newer systems because of their sensitivity to RFI and related problems. However, older ignition systems are not subject to these problems, so there are fewer maintenance concerns and a wider choice of options, including modifications to improve serviceability and performance. Finally, the common misconception that bike spark plug wires are like car wires that need to be replaced often has led to unnecessary and unfortunate replacement expense, as well as the application of car-specific resistive wire that has no business being on a motorcycle.
      1980 XS1100LG Midnight
      1991 Honda CBR1000F Hurricane


      "The hand is almost valueless at one end of the arm if there be not a brain at the other"

      Here's to a long life and a happy one.
      A quick death and an easy one.
      A pretty girl and an honest one.
      A cold beer and another one!

      Comment


      • #48
        Interesting. Although this compares the two systems, it speaks to the use of resistance specifically in the TCI system. Notice the warning. Whether we use a resistor plug (which seems the best idea), or resistor wires (bad idea), or resistor caps, we need to be resisted somewhere in the system to protect the TCI. The ballast resister would only affect the coils voltage. Interesting though that the coils are charged with 12 volts continuously until discharged.

        Again, the difference between "Induction" (TCI) and CDI systems is this:

        TCI collapses an already charged coil by disconnecting it (TCI switches off briefly). These systems generally use a higher resistance type coil and are known as an "induction" or "Kettering" ignition systems.

        CDI sends a brief high (200+) voltage pulse to an uncharged coil which act like a transformer and multiplies it even higher. The step up is normally around 100:1. These systems tend to use low resistance or "racing" oils.

        CDI modules normally use low resistance type coils. Remember that CDI is "shooting" a voltage pulse through the coil. TCI (or induction ignitions) use (and expect) higher resistance "induction" type coils. Remember current is flowing through the TCI to the induction coils continuously and the coil is fired when the TCI shuts it off. The importance of this is:

        Do Not Use a "racing" -or- low resistance type coil in an "induction" ignition (or TCI) system.
        The low resistance coil will flow more current thru the TCI and produce the legendary "Hot Toaster" effect. Though it will work for awhile, you will eventually burn the TCI module out.
        1980 XS1100LG Midnight
        1991 Honda CBR1000F Hurricane


        "The hand is almost valueless at one end of the arm if there be not a brain at the other"

        Here's to a long life and a happy one.
        A quick death and an easy one.
        A pretty girl and an honest one.
        A cold beer and another one!

        Comment


        • #49
          It's fouled I think but I'm not sure how I should clean it. Any tips?
          I clean mine with a wire brush. Then I set them electrodes-up on a vice, and hit them one-at-a-time with a propane torch until the electrodes glow red, and the flame stays a constant blue. If you see flashes of other colors, it's the contaminants burning off the plugs. Let them cool down, blow them out with a compressor, put a little anti-seize on the threads, and reinstall. The propane was one of Ivan's tricks, and it will completely remove contaminants and will help to keep the plugs from re-fouling. The manual says your plugs should be cleaned every 1K miles, but mine usually only need it at the beginning of the season.
          I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.

          '79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake lines

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by XS1100 Newbie View Post
            CDI modules normally use low resistance type coils. Remember that CDI is "shooting" a voltage pulse through the coil. TCI (or induction ignitions) use (and expect) higher resistance "induction" type coils. Remember current is flowing through the TCI to the induction coils continuously and the coil is fired when the TCI shuts it off. The importance of this is:

            Do Not Use a "racing" -or- low resistance type coil in an "induction" ignition (or TCI) system.
            The low resistance coil will flow more current thru the TCI and produce the legendary "Hot Toaster" effect. Though it will work for awhile, you will eventually burn the TCI module out.
            The point here is that the stock XS11 coils from 80 and earlier are two low of a resistance, being closer to CDI levels, which is why there is a resistor in the line, to bring the total resistance up to the proper level to keep the current flowing through the power transistors of the TCI within spec so they don't burn up. The resistor is switch out of the circuit while cranking to increase the spark while the voltage is lower while cranking. The new replacement coils are hot enough that they still have more spark during cranking than stock coils without the ballast resistor. Many run non-resistor caps with resistor plugs because they are easier to find. As I understand it, our TCI system is fine with non-resistor plugs and non-resistor caps, but the guy listening to his radio in the car next to you won't like it, and neither will you if you have an onboard stereo system. It's also been found that running both resistor caps AND resistor plugs seems to work just fine, but I run what's specified for stock just because I know it's going to work just fine at least until I swap out for aftermarket coils.
            Cy

            1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
            Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
            Vetter Windjammer IV
            Vetter hard bags & Trunk
            OEM Luggage Rack
            Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
            Spade Fuse Box
            Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
            750 FD Mod
            TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
            XJ1100 Front Footpegs
            XJ1100 Shocks

            I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

            Comment


            • #51
              CY
              I suppose you are probably right, but i too keep using the stock plugs. The bike had resistor plugs when i got it, and it ran fine. I am thinking of putting new wires on, and regular plug wire ends, and running resistor plugs.
              1980 XS1100LG Midnight
              1991 Honda CBR1000F Hurricane


              "The hand is almost valueless at one end of the arm if there be not a brain at the other"

              Here's to a long life and a happy one.
              A quick death and an easy one.
              A pretty girl and an honest one.
              A cold beer and another one!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by cywelchjr View Post
                the guy listening to his radio in the car next to you won't like it
                But he wont know why its happening!
                Nathan
                KD9ARL

                μολὼν λαβέ

                1978 XS1100E
                K&N Filter
                #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                OEM Exhaust
                ATK Fork Brace
                LED Dash lights
                Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

                Green Monster Coils
                SS Brake Lines
                Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                Theodore Roosevelt

                Comment


                • #53
                  What the XS is SUPPOSED to have are non-resistor wires, non-resistor spark plugs and 5Kohm resistor sparkplug boots.

                  The boots are available at almost any automotive store.

                  If you use any other combination you have no idea if you are getting the proper resistance for the system or not.

                  You won't see any difference in how it runs as the resistance is not for the operation of the bike, but to reduce interference for those around you.
                  Last edited by Crazcnuk; 02-14-2011, 04:04 PM.
                  Nice day, if it doesn't rain...

                  '05 ST1300
                  '83 502/502 Monte Carlo for sale/trade

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