What type of helmet?

[Geezer]

Many years ago I took a blow to the chin of my full face helmet in a crash. I wouldn't consider any other type since then. I know I wouldn't be the same if I had been wearing a 3/4 helmet that day...

Geezer

[barberad]

Here in Ut, helmets are not required. I wear mine 95% of the time. Zamp modular W/retractable visor. Always hated the line and pain from trying to squeeze a pair of sunglasses in there as well as my fat head.
I am always amazed at the Crotch Rocketeers with their girlfriends on the back of their bikes with the $500 Shoei helmets and a bathing suit.

[jwhughes3]

kevlar bikinis

Here in Ut, helmets are not required. I wear mine 95% of the time. Zamp modular W/retractable visor. Always hated the line and pain from trying to squeeze a pair of sunglasses in there as well as my fat head.
I am always amazed at the Crotch Rocketeers with their girlfriends on the back of their bikes with the $500 Shoei helmets and a bathing suit.

The newest thing is Kevlar reinforced bikinis so in a crash your implants are protected from road rash

John in San Antonio

HJC Symax modular - because big grasshoppers hurt when they hit you....

[madmax-im]

No Muliple choice?

I actually have a Shoei TZR full face ,a Nolan N102 Modular and a HJC SyMax ll modular...I also have a HJC Cop Top (1/2 helmet) and...a Bell 3/4 helmet...of these the main use is between the SyMax ll and the Shoei TZR. Although I have used the modular designs for a couple years ..I'm tending to move away from these designs as i am questioning just how safe they really are...so the TZR is seeing the bulk of service now.

[Varnae]

Although I have used the modular designs for a couple years ..I'm tending to move away from these designs as i am questioning just how safe they really are...

I don't know about the Nolan, but my Shark Evoline is the first and only modular helmet (so far) to pass the European safety rating in both the open and closed position. I'd call that pretty safe personally, but that's just my opinion.

[madmax-im]

I don't know about the Nolan, but my Shark Evoline is the first and only modular helmet (so far) to pass the European safety rating in both the open and closed position. I'd call that pretty safe personally, but that's just my opinion.

Well the main reason I am questioning the safety of the helmets I use is because none of these manufacturers have submitted their modulars for independant testing. These manufactureres have the capability to recreate the same testing procedeures and they know their helmets wont pass...so they dont even try to get independant testing. One further note about modulars...where the hinges are for the helmet to open/close there is less room between your head and the latching mechanism...thus when you hit your head in an impact the forces are transmitted with greater intensity to the temples of the head area. Comparing my modulars to my FF Shoei it is rather plain to see that the Shoei offers better head protection and padding in the areas where a latch system would be impacting on one's temples.

[CatatonicBug]

I don't know about the Nolan, but my Shark Evoline is the first and only modular helmet (so far) to pass the European safety rating in both the open and closed position. I'd call that pretty safe personally, but that's just my opinion.

The problem is that even though it may pass the legal requirements, NO helmet that does not have something over the chin is safe enough for me. So, the very fact that it passes in the open position tells me that the requirement is not stringent enough. The chin cover on a modular is a separate unit altogether, attached with a hinge. The hinge is an inherent weak point, and could easily be snapped off in an impact. Yes, the head covering would remain intact, but its the chin I am most concerned about, since that is where most impacts occur.

I have pondered the possibility of the modular helmets many times, mainly for the convenience factor, but every time I do that, I remind myself of the picture I posted earlier in this thread. It's just not worth it to me. I have tried on the Shoei RF1000 helmets recently, and they are definitely more comfortable than my Seven0Seven. I just wish I had the money to spend on one.

[cywelchjr]

The problem is that even though it may pass the legal requirements, NO helmet that does not have something over the chin is safe enough for me. So, the very fact that it passes in the open position tells me that the requirement is not stringent enough. The chin cover on a modular is a separate unit altogether, attached with a hinge. The hinge is an inherent weak point, and could easily be snapped off in an impact. Yes, the head covering would remain intact, but its the chin I am most concerned about, since that is where most impacts occur.

I have pondered the possibility of the modular helmets many times, mainly for the convenience factor, but every time I do that, I remind myself of the picture I posted earlier in this thread. It's just not worth it to me. I have tried on the Shoei RF1000 helmets recently, and they are definitely more comfortable than my Seven0Seven. I just wish I had the money to spend on one.

My reasoning goes a step further. Not only have I seen the chart of where the impacts are, I have personally had a facial impact in a MINOR accident that cost me 27 stitches in 3 layers in my lower lip that would NOT have happened had I been wearing a full face helmet. I have worn a full face 100% of the time since that time and won't get on the bike without my face being protected.

[Crazcnuk]

"The problem is that even though it may pass the legal requirements, NO helmet that does not have something over the chin is safe enough for me."

This is purely a personal choice and has no bearing on anyone else. Passing the 'legal' requirements is all that any of us get from our protective gear. If you want to imagine issues above and beyond those that have been accounted for by thousands of engineers dealing with tens of thousands of accidents, by all means go for it, but your phobias don't necessarily translate to the rest of us.

So, the very fact that it passes in the open position tells me that the requirement is not stringent enough."

Since many of us only wear open face, it will have to do.

"The chin cover on a modular is a separate unit altogether, attached with a hinge. The hinge is an inherent weak point, and could easily be snapped off in an impact."

You're making an assumption here. I have seen no evidence that the hinges ARE a weak point. In fact, in many assemblies (other than helmets) hinges are often stronger than the the surrounding area. As for being snapped off, in a collision the impact is absorbed in the first few millseconds. The very act of ripping off the front is likely enough to aborb the kinetic energy of an impact, unless you subscribe to the 'two or more' impact theory that Snell does.

"Yes, the head covering would remain intact, but its the chin I am most concerned about, since that is where most impacts occur."

I have seen no evidence that the chin is where most impacts occur. If this were the case, there would be no open face helmets allowed by law. Most impacts, that I have seen are on the top rear or top front (forehead) area. I guess if you ride with your face on the handle bar...


Basically, I ride with my open face, to cover 90% of the impacts, and don't worry about the rest. Real men don't care if they get a scar on thier chin.

If I was forced to ride in a fish tank (closed face) I'd take the car. The wind in the face is the whole point (subdued by a windscreen)

[CatatonicBug]

You're making an assumption here. I have seen no evidence that the hinges ARE a weak point. In fact, in many assemblies (other than helmets) hinges are often stronger than the the surrounding area. As for being snapped off, in a collision the impact is absorbed in the first few millseconds. The very act of ripping off the front is likely enough to aborb the kinetic energy of an impact, unless you subscribe to the 'two or more' impact theory that Snell does.

I completely agree that this is an assumption. However, I can see no logical reasoning that would explain to me that 2 small rotaing points would be stronger than a solid mass. As every crash is different, I have to plan ahead for every possibility, and weigh the risks, just like everyone else. The chances of multiple impacts seem pretty high in my book, so the "two or more" theory sounds logical to me.

I am not implying that laws should change, or that everyone should be forced to wear a certain type of helmet. I'm simply expressing my own personal thoughts and beliefs. I do think though that there should be a graduated scale for rating the safety of helmets, much like cars are rated with stars for crash safety. Just because a car has only 3 stars will not keep it from the market, but it shows the consumer that is concerned about such things that perhaps there are better options out there for them.

I have seen no evidence that the chin is where most impacts occur. If this were the case, there would be no open face helmets allowed by law. Most impacts, that I have seen are on the top rear or top front (forehead) area. I guess if you ride with your face on the handle bar...

The picture I posted earlier in this thread is proof that the chin is where most impacts occur. The top of the head is the least likely place for an impact. In case you hadn't noticed, when your bike stops quickly, your face gets much closer to the handlebars than usual. If you are unable to resist that momentum with arm strength (in the case of a frontal crash) your face will come within inches of the handlebars, and become the leading edge of your airborne body. As gravity takes over, your face then comes much closer to the pavement, causing the forward-most portion of your face (your chin) to meet the ground first.

Of course, as I said, every crash is different, so this is just one scenario, but even in other self-imagined scenarios, it seems to me that the head does a good job of landing with the outer edges of it's horizontal circumference (ears, chin/nose, back of head) on the ground first, before any other area.

[Crazcnuk]

I" completely agree that this is an assumption. However, I can see no logical reasoning that would explain to me that 2 small rotaing points would be stronger than a solid mass."

Because the mass, as you call it is a very thin layer of polycarbonate with some foam behind it.

"As every crash is different, I have to plan ahead for every possibility, and weigh the risks, just like everyone else. The chances of multiple impacts seem pretty high in my book, so the "two or more" theory sounds logical to me."

But studies, one of which has been linked elsewhere on this site stated that multiple impacts, on the same spot are so rare as to render the Snell rating useless.

"I am not implying that laws should change, or that everyone should be forced to wear a certain type of helmet. I'm simply expressing my own personal thoughts and beliefs."

Of course, no slight intended.

"I do think though that there should be a graduated scale for rating the safety of helmets, much like cars are rated with stars for crash safety. Just because a car has only 3 stars will not keep it from the market, but it shows the consumer that is concerned about such things that perhaps there are better options out there for them."

They do, that's what all the ratings are about. The problem for the average, on-engineering consumer is to figure out which ones actually mean something useful, and which are just marketing gimmicks.

"The picture I posted earlier in this thread is proof that the chin is where most impacts occur."

I don't remember any picture that states anythng about frequency.

"The top of the head is the least likely place for an impact."

No one mentioned the top of the head, but actually it is hit a lot. see below.

In case you hadn't noticed, when your bike stops quickly, your face gets much closer to the handlebars than usual."

Actually, in my experience, and those of my friends, the tendency, when you run into something is for the front of the bike to dive, and the rear to come up pitching you up and into, or over whatever you just ran into. A friend of mine broadsided a p/u truck that pulled out in front of him, form a side road (while the bike was going up a hill btw) and he cleared the p/u, over the canopy.

"If you are unable to resist that momentum with arm strength (in the case of a frontal crash) your face will come within inches of the handlebars, and become the leading edge of your airborne body."

You can't resist that force, but at best your arm breaks while your pitched over the hadnlebars, by a fair margin. DAMHIK

"As gravity takes over, your face then comes much closer to the pavement, causing the forward-most portion of your face (your chin) to meet the ground first."

So does your whole body, and usually most people will instinctively turn before the impact, and when they come down to the pavement they tend to land on shoulders, arms, legs or whatever part of the body happens to hit first. It may be the head, but very rarely the chin area.

One friend did recieve facial injuries, but he was run off the road by a lady who lane changed w/o looking and ran him up on a boulevard.

One friend was killed when he went off the road and flew off and hit a rock, on the top of his helmet.

The two that I know of where there were serious face injuries both ran into a pole. One a wooden telephone pole, the other an aluminum light standard. The first was serioulsy brain damaged. The 2nd was the one who hit the p/u truck and always used to buy Arai full-face helmets, and now wears an open face in nice weather, and only uses the full in the rain. He's been in 3 serious motorcycle accidents over the last 31 years.

All my crashes occured on dirt bikes, where I still used an open face, and have hit things, even flipped the bike right over the front wheel once on a motocross track. Ripped a hole through my leather coat, right over the heart, but not a scratch. Just a charlie horse in one leg.

[fredintoon]

Take a closer look

- - - The chin cover on a modular is a separate unit altogether, attached with a hinge. The hinge is an inherent weak point, and could easily be snapped off in an impact. - - -

Hi 'Bug,
I have been so delighted with the ability to put on and remove my modular Nolan without dropping my glasses during the process that I never thought about it's hinges until I read your post.
Then I took a look. The hinges have no part in the chinpiece's resistance to a frontal blow.
The chinpiece fits in a stepped recess all around it's contact line.
It's this peripheral interlock that makes the chinpiece act like an integral part of the helmet for the brief time needed to stop your face being torn off.

[MeatTooth]

I just ordered a Gmax 68S helmet. It's dot approved and it fits the budget. It also comes with a smoke visor and clear and it has a little led that flashes on the back of it to increase visiblity at night.
here is the review of it

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motor...et/gmax/gm68s/

[CatatonicBug]

Hi 'Bug,
I have been so delighted with the ability to put on and remove my modular Nolan without dropping my glasses during the process that I never thought about it's hinges until I read your post.
Then I took a look. The hinges have no part in the chinpiece's resistance to a frontal blow.
The chinpiece fits in a stepped recess all around it's contact line.
It's this peripheral interlock that makes the chinpiece act like an integral part of the helmet for the brief time needed to stop your face being torn off.

Cool! Do you happen to have a link to a place that explains it in more detail, with cutaway pictures and stuff? This is the kind of info I was hoping someone would be able to come up with.

[CatatonicBug]

Because the mass, as you call it is a very thin layer of polycarbonate with some foam behind it.

The same Poly and foam that protects the rest of my head. No moving parts to let go of their anchor points anywhere else on the helmet...

But studies, one of which has been linked elsewhere on this site stated that multiple impacts, on the same spot are so rare as to render the Snell rating useless.

I am in no way advocating the Snell rating. I think it's bogus myself. An impact does not have to happen in the exact same spot more than once to knock the chin piece off a modular helmet. He, again, I am assuming that the chin piece CAN be knocked off a modular helmet if hit in the right way)

They do, that's what all the ratings are about. The problem for the average, on-engineering consumer is to figure out which ones actually mean something useful, and which are just marketing gimmicks.

They don't. The only ratings that are available are pass/fail. Just because a turtle shell helmet is DOT-compliant does not tell me that it is equally as protective as a full-face. The Snell ratings are archaic, and though they are more extensive, do not give the full picture, or any kind of graduated scale.

I don't remember any picture that states anythng about frequency.

Post #73 in this thread. It says that 34.6% of crashes hit the chin on one side or the other on initial impact. This is compared to 38.6% for the ENTIRE upper half of the head (everything from the ears up). This tells me that the small area of the chin is just as likely to be hit as the entire area covered by a turtle shell.

he cleared the p/u, over the canopy.

What goes up must come down. That's the part we're dealing with here. What happens when gravity takes over? He is a projectile, flying head-first, arching toward the ground on the other side of the pickup. His face is probably still facing the ground, like superman.

most people will instinctively turn before the impact, and when they come down to the pavement they tend to land on shoulders, arms, legs or whatever part of the body happens to hit first. It may be the head, but very rarely the chin area.

I don't know how fast your reflexes are, but there is no way I would be able to think about turning my body in any "preferred" direction between the time I left my bike and when I hit the road. I will be a rag-doll, tossed by momentum and gravity.