What Next.... Now it don't run right!

[remccool]

After the forks, I thought I was set. I took her (my 78XS11E) out for a ride with a friend on his new Vulcan. Anyway, She seemed to be running ok at first, but after just a few miles (maybe 15 or so) she started running really rough, especially at low speeds. She wouldn't accelerate hardly at all, and the engine doesn't sound right, kind of a deep muffled sound. After another a few more miles (maybe another 15) she got to the point that she would barely move at all, wide open on the throttle and she was doing maybe 20 miles per hour and running really rough, then all at once for a few seconds she would run ok again, but only for a few seconds. I pulled over and smelled gas... this got my attention. After she cooled down she at least started again but only if I held the started button in for about 30 seconds, she used to start almost instantly. I didn't have a plug wrench so I limped to an Auto Zone parts house, bought a spark plug socket and wrench set, pulled the plugs, #2 looked clean, the other 3 were completely cover with black soot, really covered really bad. I replaced all 4, she still didn't start or run any better, but I got her home. Any help on where to start, I would sure appreciate it.
She (at least the engine) was running GREAT, this literally just happened.

[John]

Sounds like a major air restriction. What do you have for an intake system? Stock? Individual pod filters? Could be floats sticking, but you didn't mention gas pooring from the airbox.
If it ain't carbs, then check the pickup coil wires. That will drop two cylinders out. 1 & 4 are on one coil, and 2 & 3 are onthe other.

[Pat Kelly]

Open the gascap and listen for air rushing INTO the tank.
When I 1st got my E running it would go like a bat outta hell for a quarter mile then barely limp home.
The vent in the gascap was rusted closed.

On the same note. I just got 2 gascap seals from MikesXS.com. They fit both my E and LG perfectly. $4 each I think.

[remccool]

There was gas pouring out of the air box... I was so bummed out about it all, I forgot to mention that.
(And it was #3 plug that was clean, not #2)
I'll check the gas tank vent, when I openned it, I didn't hear anything.
She has a stock air system.

[remccool]

The gas was after I had let her cool down, I noticed it on the ground under the engine, it was coming from the bottom of the breather box.

[John]

You either have stuck floats, or debris in the needle and seat , preventing the floats from shutting off the flow of fuel. Now check your engine oil for signs of gas in it. That will happen if gas gets past the intake valve and seeps past the rings on the pistons. If you smell gas in the oil, change it! The gas will wash away all lubricity of the oil, and that will damage the bearings, cams, and anything else the oil lubricates. You'll have to pull the carbs, and check for junk in needle and seat, or for a sunk, or stuck float. Sounds like the petcocks may be leaking also, Take a look at those too.

[remccool]

Sounds like my evening will be busy! Thanks for the help, I'll get on it right away. With this weather we are having, I don't want to miss too many nice days, it is about 95 here today and a blue sky, before long it will be hot here, so these relatively cool days are great.

[remccool]

O M G !!!! I can't believe it. I don't even know if I want to post what I found just now!
Ok, ok, ok, I guess I have to sit in the corner wearing a pointy hat at the Texsive Rally in Galveston.....
After I pulled the seat and the the bottom of the breather box, I noticed something in the "snorkle" tube for the breather box.
(I am amazed that this bike even ran at all!)
I found a 2 inch long 1/2" drive Socket (turned sideways) inside the snorkle tube blocking it almost entirely. It had to be in there since the first week on January, That was the last time I had used that socket! All I can figure is it must have been facing the the other way (90 degrees from where I found it) until sometime this morning. I must have hit a bump (lots of them to hit here) or something to rattle it sideways to block the tube.
Man does it make a difference with it out!
I still need to check the floats though. The only time I have seen the gas was when I was trying to start it after I let it cool down. It may have been there because of the blocked tube.
The really bad part is, I have read a number of responses from others to others about checking that tube for mice and other objects, just didn't register that it could be causing my problem today.
Thanks for the help again!

[TopCatGr58]

Socket to me?

Hey there McRich,

Thanks for the laugh!! But now to more serious matters! With your floats sticking, there's a chance you could have gotten some gas into your oil, by it leaking into the intake, past the valves, rings, and down into the oil! You'll want to check your oil for presence of gas mixed with it! If so, you'll need to change it, you don't want to spin a bearing, or score/gall your cams or crank!!

A stuck float can also cause flooding of the carb when you're trying to drive it, and can cause some annoying poor performance, poor low end throttle response, rough running, etc.! Once you get them fixed, and put some new/cleaned plugs in, you'll be running like a rocket for sure!
T.C.

[remccool]

Already got the cleaner fluid (basket kit) for the carbs, and the oil and filter will replaced tomarrow. At this point my $700 eBay find is starting to get expensive,over $1000 on parts so far, and don't want to have to replace or rebuild the one thing that has been solid so far, the actual motor, due to not changing contaminated oil. That would be pointy hat in the corner time for sure.
For setting the float level, I was reading in the Clymers that they should be set to 1.012" above the edge of the carb case, and to set it by bending the "tang" . I don't have a set of micrometers, how do most normal people set these? I read something in another discussion group about using a tube, but I didn't find the actual article that explains what the tube method is. Is there a link somewhere to something describing this method?
Thanks

[remccool]

Re: Socket to me?

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
Hey there McRich,

You'll want to check your oil for presence of gas mixed with it! If so, you'll need to change it, you don't want to spin a bearing, or score/gall your cams or crank!!

What does a spun bearing sound like ...... please don't tell me it makes a whirling noise periodically. I've had that noise since day one, mostly at higher rpm's or when accelerating.

[prometheus578]

"the needle... and the spoon..."

Floats not shutting off... you should... no, you WILL have to replace the float needles. The richness might have been caused by the socket... but the overflowing fuel is the needles, which also would richen the mixture.
Don't worry about your bearings, yet. Whinning sound could be normal engine noise... or it just could have been you when the bike wasn't running right!
No need fer a micrometer to set the float height. Just measure out and cut a business card or stiff piece o' paper in an "L" shape where the inside leg measures 29mm. Hold the carb upside-down and measure from the gasket mating surface(without the gasket in place) to the top section of the float. Bend the tang if needed. Measure both sides o' the float. Really simple... like me.
And don't stick the carbs in the bucket cleaner without totally disassembling them. It'll destroy the seals on the butterfly shaft. (Can cleaners are the last resort for plugged up passages)

[remccool]

I had bought a carb kit off ebay back in Dec, but the original carbs had too much damage for me to fix (broken float holders, etc.) So I bought this set (off eBay also) and just gave them a qiuck visual once over, floats looked good, etc, so I installed them. The Clymers has a lot of info in it, but is there anything in particular to look out for while installing this kit? I don't know who the manufacturer of the kit is (I have read that K&N may have issues with jets).
Thanks again,

[DiverRay]

DO NOT PUT THE CARBS IN A "DIP BUCKETT"!!!! All you need to do is pull the float bowl, pull the pins on the floats, pull floats, then unscrew the seat. It's a 10mm, and I use a deep six point socket so it won;t round off. Use spray carb cleaner to check all the ciruts. The "tech tips" has all the information you should need. On the '78, I would set the float hight to 26mm the first time, and adjust from there depending on how it runs.
Ray

[Pat Kelly]

An interesting post on the XStriples site about cleaning carbs.
Someone there read about, and tried, dipping the carbs in lemon juice.
A couple of people apparantly have tried this.
One uses a crock-pot (not SWMBOs I would think). Another uses a tray commonly used for sheetrock putty on a 2 burner hotplate.
You heat the lemon juice (someone said vinegar would work too) to just below boiling. Supposedly won't hurt rubberseals (unless they were bad to begin with). Rinse well with water and dry with compresses air.
I would think the citric acid would do a good job degreasing. warming it would thin the juice and the agitation on being almost to a boil would move the debris.
It was said if parts left in too long the brass becomes discolored. Unknown effect on painted parts (MNS carbs).
Remove diaphrams, floats, needle/seats, and jets then sautee your carb rack. Photos of cleaned parts looked very clean.
I have a set of MIC1 carbs (XS720D I think) that I may try this on.