Carbs again??? Or still!!!

[noeleo]

Hope I posted in the right place. Here goes...

My bike runs like a dream. Gets 43 mpg. Couldn't ask for more, or could you? It's really hard to start when cold. Can't even give it the slightest touch of the throttle. After two or three attempts, she will hit a few times, then finally run and take throttle. Use of the enrichener (choke) has no effect, even makes it worse as far as the time to start. Once it is warm, it starts great if I leave the petcocks in the "ON" position. If I turn the petcocks to the "OFF" position, it acts like it is flooded when restarting a warm engine. I feel like the "octopus" atmospheric vent is probably the cause of the latter, but I'm not sure. I haven't taken it apart yet. Also what type of line should I put on for fuel line? Mine probably needs replacement because it's still original. You folks here at XS11.com have really helped me before, so it's opem for your comments and discussions. Thanks in advance for your help...


noeleo
XS1100LG (Haven't named it yet)

[John]

Take a look at the enrichener jets that are IN the float bowl itself. These jets mate up with the long slender brass tubes that stick down into the float bowl area when the bowls are off. If the bike had sat for any length of time, the jets will clog. They are very small, so, don't go hoggin' them out with a drill.I used a can of carb spry to soak them, and then a piece of thin steel wire, and compressed air to clean mine. You can tell when they are open hen you spray some cleaner in the jet and it comes shooting out the other end. Wear some goggles, though!
Here is a pic showing the enrichener jet.
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ght=choke+tube

[fxrer]

Hey noeleo,

John is absolutely right, it is certainly those enricher jets. Like he said, go to that thread - you'll see the picture, and read my experience, which is exaclty like you describe. I cleaned the jets as advised by Ken Talbot, and presto, it started like new again.

But, also as John cautions be careful not to booger the jets as they have very small holes. Be patient, and when you've got them cleared, you'll see the spray shoot out the passage, as John described.

[turbopete]

To clean out the enrichener jets in my float bowls, I used a jewellers screwdriver ground on my bench grinder to a VERY fine taper and point. Squirting with carb cleaner alone would not budge the hardened crud but a half-hours work with my home-made tool plus carb cleaner had them all clear and working well.

[noeleo]

OK, people. I'm about to give up. I removed the carb bank, disassembled the fuel bowls and proceeded to clean out the jets for the enricher circuit in the bottom of the bowl. When I applied air pressure to the jets, no restriction was found. I then proceeded to completely disassemble the carburetors. I applied compressed air to every passage in the carbs, and found no restriction. The enricher still doesn't work. I did, while disassembling the #2 carb find a slightly dislodged diaphragm which, after reassembly, fixed a random miss under hard acceleration. The carbs have been synchronized with a set of mercury sticks. The engine runs great. If you take off from a stop sign and shift through all the gears at a low speed, you can roll the throttle from an RPM of under 1,000 in 5th and has no lags, bogs or hesitations. I can't fault the machine in any way referring to running except for cold starting. If I happen to not ride it for two days, it won't even start. I have to use starting fluid to fire it up. I don't want to quit on this machine. It has gotten bad enough that I am riding another machine when it won't start. I'm worried that the starter is going out from trying to start it cold. (Extended cranking) You guys and gals have greatly helped me over the past year and a half, and I really respect all your opinions. It only has 5,200 miles now. Thanks again and thanks to the website, too!

[pggg]

Noel, I'd junk the octopus and the birdsnest of hoses that come with it, and rig a simpler fuel tap to hose to carb system.

[xj11john]

Noeleo,

As far as the fuel-line I added the clear yellow line they sell at lawn mower shops, just the right size, and you can see the fuel in the line. It also stands up to cold weather very well.

I was thinking your problem sounds like a lean condition, but would think that the enricher would still make it start in that condition-so maybe thats no help.

I hope the fuel-line tip that I accually got on here, and also from a Napa auto parts person helps.

[prometheus578]

You haven't mentioned the...

Replace the plugs with a new set of NGKs and try again.
"But they don't look too bad!"
Tough, do it anyway. My guess is that she'll fire right up. Ride it for a coupla days and then check them and write back with what they look like.

[noeleo]

Re: You haven't mentioned the...

Originally posted by prometheus578
Replace the plugs with a new set of NGKs and try again.
"But they don't look too bad!"
Tough, do it anyway. My guess is that she'll fire right up. Ride it for a coupla days and then check them and write back with what they look like.

Something probably not mentioned before, there are only 5200 (that's fifty-two hundred) miles on the bike. The plugs have less than 500 miles on them. They are NGK BR6ES. When checked after a 1/2 mile full throttle run in 5th gear, they are very nicely tan. As mentioned earlier, it runs realy good 99% of the time. Only trouble is COLD starting. If you take off the seat and spritz a little ether, she fires right up. When warm, she doesn't seem to turn over but maybe twice, then starts and idles good. Sometimes starts warm before you can get your thumb off the starter button.

Rode it Saturday in the local TOY RUN, and also to another town for a total of about 130 miles. Ran great!! Just wouldn't start that morning. Hadn't been run for three days.

Thanks guys for the advice. Please don't quit posting. With your help, maybe I'll get her right soon.

[andreashweiss]

I had a 81 sh that was hard if not almost impossible to start. Problem was solved when I switched pickup coil assembly,ballast resister tci and coils from a 79sf over to the 81 motor.

[randy]

Andreas jogged my memory.

Noeleo, have you checked the pickup coil gap? It's possible that your spark is not strong enough to light it cold. Weak spark can be caused by a too-wide pickup gap.

[prometheus578]

hard to diagnose over modem

Runs and starts fine when warm, but we don't know what the condition is when cold and setting for a few. On cold start up... may be either not enough fuel, or too much fuel. Should you have a faulty octopus or needle and seat, a few days rest would be long enough to flood the carbs and the cylinder, fouling the plugs at start up, but cleaning them up once hot. Flooding carbs are not always indicated by fuel in the airbox. I've seen dry airboxes, and fuel in the oil.
Get some medical locking foreceps(hemostadts) or small vise grips. Take the bike for a good run. Once home, clamp shut the fuel lines going to the carbs. Let set for a few days. Remove clamps and try to start. If it fires right up, then it was a leaking fuel prob. If it doesn't... then we move on to something else.

[LoserShoes]

Sounds like the carbs are dry and not getting fuel when cold. I would try bypassing the vacumn shutoff and connect directly to the tank and try a cold start like that. If that didn't work I'd take real close look at the enricher circuits.
How does it run when it starts with the shot of ether? Does the idle speed increase as it warms up, or do you have to keep goosing the throttle to keep running until it warms up?

Steve

[Winterhawk]

Are you sure your choke holes in your float bowls are clean? Ken Talbot has some excellent pics on here and discussions on these holes that are very hard to get clean sometimes.

[noeleo]

Originally posted by LoserShoes
Sounds like the carbs are dry and not getting fuel when cold. I would try bypassing the vacumn shutoff and connect directly to the tank and try a cold start like that. If that didn't work I'd take real close look at the enricher circuits.
How does it run when it starts with the shot of ether? Does the idle speed increase as it warms up, or do you have to keep goosing the throttle to keep running until it warms up?

Steve

Steve, you're getting close. When it gets just a fog of ether, it fires right up. You can drop it in gear, and just ride. No bogs, hesitations, etc. Runs as good once you get her started as it does warm. Thought about the flooding, but never raises oil level and dry in the air box. I even used the old trick of pulling an oil sample and lighting it. No gas residue.

Also, I've tried the hemostat thing on two separate occasions, but with no luck.

Keep the suggestions coming...We'll fix this thing yet!