Cam Chain wear test?

[MaximPhil]

However if the OEM tensioner is at its limit or only keeping tension to a certain point in the adjustment travel, does that necessarily mean the cam chain is at its limit. Someone help me on that?

If that chain is not taut, and the dots don't line up, if a proper tensioner was put on and the engine spun by hand with the valve cover off, you could see if the dots then line up. Then you're no worse off than you were before, if the dots don't line up then you're replacing the cam chain.

Hi Howard,
We suspect the OEM tensioner is slipping back to a previous detent so effectively not taking up the slack. I like your suggestion of testing with a auto tensioner before replacing the chain.
Although the cam chain on my Addie was replaced at about the same distance it was not worn but as the head had come off was the prudent thing to do. If chains wore out at 50,000 miles surely this would have been a past and frequent topic of discussion on this forum as many have ridden their bikes well past that.

Fortunately the bike is inside (family room) so easy to work on while it remains cold up here in Ontario. He rode it to the door so definitely a runner.

[dbbrian]

There is something odd about the timing wheel picture. It looks like the anti-vibration/anti-tamper paint on the timing pointer screw has been disturbed ....

I think its OK

[Bonz]

Hi Howard,
We suspect the OEM tensioner is slipping back to a previous detent so effectively not taking up the slack. I like your suggestion of testing with a auto tensioner before replacing the chain.
Although the cam chain on my Addie was replaced at about the same distance it was not worn but as the head had come off was the prudent thing to do. If chains wore out at 50,000 miles surely this would have been a past and frequent topic of discussion on this forum as many have ridden their bikes well past that.

Fortunately the bike is inside (family room) so easy to work on while it remains cold up here in Ontario. He rode it to the door so definitely a runner.

Yep, pick up an ACCT off eBay there's hundreds of them for different bikes. I used one off of a Vision on one bike and one off a Raptor on another I believe.


Go into the modification section at the bottom of the main forum page and choose "engine". ACCT is right there, pick the one you want and go for it. It is worth reading the thread to see the ones that require the least amount of filing or prefit tweaking.

[dbbrian]

Brian can confirm when he checks in later but his bike is RUNNER

Very nice Pacifico E. He has ridden it to VYR at Iron Horse a few times. Great machine. Runs Great. Good MPG I'm guessing he has ridden it 20,000 miles of its 50,000 miles on the ODO. (86 thou Km) Rides it in Canada with Phil quite alot of trips (on Ride Reports)

So the issue seems to be what Brian thought was some Decel cam chain rattle. Don't know when he first noticed it. That's why he was interested in determining cam chain wear. Clearly the alignment dots are off now be it from a worn out cam chain or some other gremlin.

As bikerphil stated with 86,000 Km it is not impossible that the cam chain is just worn out and stretched to its limit. Solution we've been saying is ACCT and new cam chain. But in taking off the old tensioner it would be interesting to see if it is in a proper position for tensioning or if the OEM POS tensioner has slipped.

Guess in either case I'd replace the cam chain and put in a new ACCT as Scott suggested so eloquently stated. OEM tensioner not holding tension is, well, bad. Hopefully Brian can clarify all this for us. But bike is a very good LD Runner that now for some reason has the cam position dots not lining up.

Jeff

Yes, it runs and its a lot of fun! Gas milage is decent, and hasn't declined. Oil consumption is normal - high, not any worse recently. I have put on about 45,000 km since purchase.

Last summer and especially at XXSE I noticed more noise on decel, figured it is cam chain. Tried an adjustment, as I do not adjust often (on advice that it makes no difference - opinions vary)...had same noise. I figure the plunger just went back to the same spot, or maybe the chain is getting worn...and so my questions.

To me, the dots have run past the arrow as I rotate the crank, so isn't that retarded? (LOL)

Anyone have a good ACCT they want to sell me? I know there are a few models to choose, and some are better fit than others. I can search the forum, I know.

With the oil consumption, I had it in mind to get the top end rebuilt with new guide seals, rings checked. But money has been tight. So I keep riding, packing the fairing pockets with quarts of oil.

But yes, she runs. Thanks for all the attention and help !

Brian

[Bonz]

Question about searching the forum... When I choose the search function across the top line, the search box briefly flashes on my screen then goes away I'm not able to do a search.

Anyone else having difficulty with a search?

Overall you're on the right track. Put an ACCT in there see what that does for your dot alignment.

Motoman even told me I would gain a few MPG because the cam chain would be consistently tight now with spring tension and not a manual plunger that only provides tension at the specific length where it is set and declines from there. And I did, gas mileage went up about 2 MPG.

[dbbrian]

More pics

Since I figured out how to add pics, it so cool to do so !

I pryed the chain up to get the slack back (after having rotated the crank it was taut)

Top tensioner down


Top tensioner lifted


Chain lifted

[dbbrian]

Question about searching the forum... When I choose the search function across the top line, the search box briefly flashes on my screen then goes away I'm not able to do a search.

Anyone else having difficulty with a search?....

Search works fine for me

Brian

[Bonz]

Thanks for the check on that. I'm doing it from my phone so maybe there's something going on there.

[dbbrian]

ACCT in the mail

Found one cheap on Ebay, then added shipping, USD exchange...sheesh!

[3Phase]

[...]
To me, the dots have run past the arrow as I rotate the crank, so isn't that retarded? (LOL)

[...]
But yes, she runs. Thanks for all the attention and help !

Brian

Nice shot of the timing pointer with the paint, it's totally original and virtually impossible to mess up!

The camshaft timing dots being past the bearing cap marks at the T (TDC) mark would mean the cams are advanced.
Not quite at the bearing cap marks would mean they're retarded.
Aligned with the bearing cap marks would be normal.

[3Phase]

Thanks for the check on that. I'm doing it from my phone so maybe there's something going on there.

The site's Search is/was not always reliable so I use Google and specify the xs11 site to narrow the results:

search terms here site:xs11 dot com

[3Phase]

Resurrected Picture

I was bored so I looked through some of the old posts and found one from back in 2011 that was missing an image from Flickr.

Here's a worn and stretched XS1100 camshaft timing chain.
The chain is tight after turning the crankshaft to TDC and locking it in place.
The Intake dot is dead on the mark but the Exhaust is slightly retarded.

[MaximPhil]

I was bored so I looked through some of the old posts and found one from back in 2011 that was missing an image from Flickr.

Here's a worn and stretched XS1100 camshaft timing chain.
The chain is tight after turning the crankshaft to TDC and locking it in place.
The Intake dot is dead on the mark but the Exhaust is slightly retarded.

Hi Brian,
In Scott's picture you can also see the Master Link just left of centre.
Phil

[motoman]

dbbrian, don't forget, you have to use the original two allen bolts with that auto-tensioner as the threaded holes are bottom holes and the hold down allen bolts that come with the auto tensioner are TO long and won't allow auto-tensioner to seat tight, not even a close!.

[3Phase]

Hi Brian,
In Scott's picture you can also see the Master Link just left of centre.
Phil

The crankshaft was also turned past TDC to get the Intake cam dot to line up with the mark on the bearing cap. The bike still ran great but the chain was all loose and floppy and about to let go before I changed it.

Oddly enough the Yamaha OEM part I ordered to replace it was not a continuous chain. I already had the cases split so I just had one of the guys in the shop at the dealership set the master link to make it a continuous chain after I picked it up from the parts department. No problemo.

dbbrian, don't forget, you have to use the original two allen bolts with that auto-tensioner as the threaded holes are bottom holes and the hold down allen bolts that come with the auto tensioner are TO long and won't allow auto-tensioner to seat tight, not even a close!.

Right, don't forget the use the original bolts with the new tensioner.
It won't tighten down all the way and might crack the aluminum head if you chimp out on it.