XS11 Pensacola - Resto/Mod

[LenB]

Guys, just looking at some spare shifter forks and they are definitely unique - if PO swapped forks or didn't do the shim swap properly that could be the cause of that advanced wear. Forks are clearly labeled 1,2,3 on one side and L,G,H on the other - at least from my 80G and the trans I got from an '81.

[kboehringer]

XS11 Friends,
Thanks for all the quick input. There is no doubt something was assembled incorrectly..... just trying to figure out what/how is the problem.

I've done a bit of detective work and found the forks were installed in the correct positions. It's actually quite impossible to install them wrong. The #2 (Center) fork has a much smaller I.D. which will only fit in the correct position. If #1 & #3 were incorrectly inverted there would be no clearance for the adjacent gear. The impact would be significant and much worse damage had they been beaten into the incorrect positions.





So, there is certainly a problem but not the major event of swapping the #1 & #3 fork. My detective work found yet another fork issue.... The #1 shows very abnormal wear as if it was "COCKED" .





This made me a bit suspicious of the shaft that holds the forks.... I found nothing unusual as it isn't bent or wasn't installed incorrectly since it will only go in one direction.....

What the heck is making the #1 act like it is cocked and the #3 is getting eaten up by the adjacent gear?

Some additional info for my fellow detectives:

• This transmission issue DID NOT act like a "Typical" 2nd gear issue.
  • In my experience the "Typical" 2nd gear issue the trans falls out of 2nd.
  • You can normally shift past 2nd and the bike sounds/rides pretty normal.
  • I know some folks have driven years by just skipping over 2nd.
• The bike was very difficult to get into gear BANG! (much worse than the Russian Tractor we're use to), and extremely difficult to shift from 1st up to 2nd.
  • The "Typical" 2nd gear issue doesn't create this difficulty.
• In addition, "Bad Gear Noises" were heard continuously.
• I ASSUMED this was bad 2nd left too long without repair.
• OBVIOUSLY, with the #3 fork not holding the adjacent gear in proper position, it was possibly partially engaged in the wrong position.

Something is not correct with this shift fork, shift drum, fork shaft, etc....

Thoughts?

I gotta go pull that broken case bolt so I can start re-assembly. I want this started and running this weekend so I can start on the new XS850!


KURT

[LenB]

Had similar issues with 1st gear engagement and narrowed it down to incomplete clutch disengagement. Used to like the clutch to engage with the lever about 1" off the grip. This did not allow for clutch wear, cable stretch, etc. Re-adjusted so that I'm now disengaging the clutch sooner (less play in the lever). Also started using thinner oil - I felt that 20W50 was causing the clutch friction and slipper discs to have trouble disengaging when cold - now using 10W40 and problem solved - maybe my experience can help you. I also noticed similar wear on my shifter fork when fixing second gear and figured that it was from the lateral torque pressures put on it by second gear wanting to pop out - the shifter fork was trying to maintain engagement under acceleration. Replacing the fork and the gear from a donor transmission and, of course, the washer swap was the fix - no problems since. Also make sure the star washer on the end of the shift drum is not bent and the tabs are holding the shifter pins in place properly - not much clearance in that area - if parts make contact, shifting will be affected.

[kengo]

Hi, everybody, I'm new to the forum, I need some help but I have no idea where to ask for it in this forum, very simple (for you) I have recently bought a 1980 XS1100SG (serial 3J600xxxx), I need to find the right CDI but when I look for it I can only see CDI for XS1100 79-81 or CDI for XS1100 78-80 .etc., so can someone here tell me which would be the right one for my bike and how to reconize it since all are Hitachi TID14-01?Thanks
PS if this is not the right place for y post, sorry

[jetmechmarty]

Hi, everybody, I'm new to the forum, I need some help but I have no idea where to ask for it in this forum, very simple (for you) I have recently bought a 1980 XS1100SG (serial 3J600xxxx), I need to find the right CDI but when I look for it I can only see CDI for XS1100 79-81 or CDI for XS1100 78-80 .etc., so can someone here tell me which would be the right one for my bike and how to reconize it since all are Hitachi TID14-01?Thanks
PS if this is not the right place for y post, sorry

You need to start a new thread. You won’t get what you need here.

[kboehringer]

XS11 Friends,
Here's today's update on Pensacola.......

Got the case sealing edges all cleaned up and coated with YAMABOND #4. Just applying a bit of assembly lube to the main journals before assembly.



The internal color difference of the case halves and internal components is amazing.... Looks like someone was changing the oil while someone else wasn't! This could also be a indication of mileage as well. This '79 has 69k of REAL miles on it, the donor '80 bottom half had barely over 33k on it (I have the speedo and checked). I picked up the '80 for something like $200 up in Bowling Green, KY it provided the saddle bags for my blue XS11, a $350 SOLD beautiful fuel tank, and now the bottom half of it's blown engine.....of my many very poor spending choices this was a good one.



Assembly of the gearbox is partially complete and all the original gears are back in there. I have several donor 2nd's but none looked any better than this one (some looked worse). I've used the gear selector drum from the '80 and will replace the #3 fork with a really nice one. Seeing the condition of other parts inside and the discoloration, I'm leaning more and more toward a clutch problem. I have yet to inspect the clutch components but have several spares and new springs should they be needed.

Tomorrow I'll get the shift forks and etc. all back in there and install the bottom end into the frame. It'll be much easier to lift the motor and avoid scratching the powder coated frame with the smaller and lighter bottom end.



I found that the chain tensioner was about to fall into pieces so a donor (probably also from the '80) will be used instead.



There was one minor casualty with the '80 bottom end as at some point the little "Tit" on the oil galley plug was busted off. The donor motor had been pushed around the garage for a couple years so I'm amazed no other damage happened. I'll need to drill it and pop the broken one out with a seal pick or similar. Fortunately, the plug from the '79 lower case pulled right out without any problem.




Hopefully...... be running and riding before the end of the weekend.... THAT'S THE TARGET ANYWAY!

KURT

[kboehringer]

Making progress........ But my plan to be running by the end of the weekend MAY have been a BIT too aggressive.

Finished the transmission assembly and installed the motor in the frame.

• I was able to find a couple much better condition shift forks
• The shift drum was replaced with another spare.
• I replaced the shift fork shaft (just in case).

The transmission shifted through the gears very nice and smooth.....and I could find no additional discrepancies.

• Nancy helped me load the short-block into the frame and get it secured
• Pistons & Cylinders are installed..... I'm thankful Yamaha put a nice little taper on the bottom of the cylinder making the install (rings) a breeze. They basically "squished themselves" into position.
• Middle drive is back in and filled with gear lube
• Starter is on and wired back in.
• I noticed the shift pawl did not properly align with the drum so a minor adjustment was made to the eccentric pins and the side cover installed.

Unfortunately another minor discrepancy was found which will slow down the progress..... I found some damage to the pick-up wires in two locations so I'll have to pull the ignition pick-up off the bike and repair the wires. No point installing if there are exposed conductors. I think I can pull the plug apart and slip some hat shrink over the wires. They are damaged in an area where they transition UNDER the back of the mid-drive and I also see a small problem directly under the pick-ups.

I put the motor back in the frame after the powder coating so I'm likely responsible for pinching the wire behind the motor. Not sure what damaged the wire in the pick-up area.






Although this is NOT a super-duper rebuild like I might perform on my favorite XS11 (Ugly Duckling), I won't put it together with something that is clearly wrong. I'm thoroughly inspecting everything as it goes back on the machine.

I need to take a break. I THINK I'm getting too old for this kind of work!!

KURT

[kboehringer]

It's alive.... or so it seems.

The "Motor" rebuild appears to be a great success. Swapping in the bottom half didn't (YET) appear to cause any difficulties with MOTOR operation.

• Started right up!
• I was expecting a super cloud of smoke with all the oil in the cylinders but none seem.
  • There was some burn off from the oil that was all over the exterior of the motor.
• Idle was nice once warm
• No overflowing carbs,
• Timing appears very close (although I didn't actually check it correctly).

ON the center stand the clutch seemed to have absolutely NO EFFECT on the driven rear wheel when in gear. I also heard some funny noises gear noises . I'm getting suspicious of the middle drive on the gear noises...

Need to get it in the street in a day or two and check the transmission. It did shift up/down very clean and much better than before.... But the clutch seemingly doing nothing is a concern,

Kurt

[kboehringer]

XS11 Friends,

Yippee!
It runs and shifts very well! The transmission shifts nicely (1-3). There is no "KLUNK / BANG" going into 1st and the transition to 2nd is clean and smooth.

There is CERTAINLY a need for proper carb tuning. Thanks to all the internal changes (rings, valve seals, shim adjustments, etc.) the carbs are certainly out-of-sync and will need a colortune as well. All of that is relatively minor stuff compared to splitting the cases.

Enormously RELIEVED the effort was not in vain......

Unfortunately, this machine is not insured or licensed so it will now have to sit until that chore is completed. I have plenty of tuning and minor adjustments to perform while I wait for a tag.

[2manybikes]

Congratulations! What do you think was up with the clutch initially?

[cajun31]

Kurt... very nice job and great pictorial. Good to see that bike running as well as it is. Don't know who you are using for insurance but wanted to suggest Progressive to you. I have all 5 of my bikes under one policy with them. Four with just liability and my brand new 2022 Road Glide Limited with full coverage and the price per year is less then most pay for just the one bike. Might want to give them a look as I know you have a garage full of bikes. With Progressive ... it seems that the more bikes you have the lower the cost per bike runs. Only thing to watch is how you pick coverages because adding certain coverages like uninsured or under insured motorist coverages will automatically add that to all the bikes on the policy. You will see what I mean should you decide to use them. All I know is it is saving me a lot by using them.

[Radioguylogs]

Yeah!!!!

Also curious about the clutch.

[kboehringer]

XS11 Friends,

Thanks for the responses.

When I started the bike last night it was on the center stand. When I put it in the gear, as stated, the clutch SEEMED to do nothing. I put my foot on the back tire in gear and with the clutch fully pulled and the tire nearly took my foot off when I attempted to hold it still! It SEEMED as though something was wrong. In addition, as I ran through the first couple gears it didn't sound too good from that gear box. I'm guessing that lack of weight of the bike and no butt on the seat didn't give the clutch much resistance. Running through the gears with a shaft driven bike on a center stand and the gear lash in the middle drive & final drive was PROBABLY the noise I was hearing.

Today, sitting on concrete with my butt on the saddle, the clutch worked just fine. The clutch installed in the bike is from another '79 motor I grabbed up in North Georgia a couple years ago for $50. I had several spare clutch assemblies (photo). The clutch I picked had the best fibers at nearly .12" on every plate, the removed/original was close to (or below) the minimum standard of .11" on all of its discs.



I've made sooooooo many changes inside the motor & gearbox I'm at a complete loss to determine what EXACTLY fixed the issue with the transmission that started this whole event. I suspect the clutch was a big part of that problem. With marginal discs, it may not have ever been completely "Grabbing" as all the discs were thinner than preferred specification.

• Replacement Clutch - Better Condition Used.
• Replaced Shift Forks #2 & #3 - Better Condition Used
• Replaced Shift Drum - Used
• Replaced Shift Fork Shaft - Used
• Replaced Counter Shaft Housing & Bearing - I BROKE it removing it & had to replace it.
  • Don't try to pry it off with a screwdriver by one ear!
  • Punch it out with a proper Starrett punch from behind!
• Replaced Mid Drive Gear Assembly & Bearing - Better Condition Used
• Adjusted Shift Linkage
• Second Gear was NOT replaced - It looked better than any of my spares.
• Washer swap was already done by the PO.
• The PO's handy work was the reason for the lower case replacement.

If one of my Technicians at work replaced this many parts on one of my production machines and then couldn't tell me which one fixed the problem I would have a freaky cow.... I'd refer to that guy as a "Parts Changer" vs. a "Troubleshooter Technician". I guess I should be glad I don't work for me! :-) I should also be very happy I have several spares of EVERYTHING XS11 as I was able to pull parts off the shelf at no additional cost that are NOT available for most of my other bikes.

Whatever part(s) fixed the transmission issue its working well now. And, the refreshed top end with all the carbon removed, new valve seals, new rings and reasonably well prepared jugs, this motor should be good-to-go for DECADES.

KURT

[kboehringer]

50 Miles in the saddle today......RUNS GOOD

I was certainly a bit nervous with this machine and all the work that had been done. I set-up my trailer on the Accord and had it pointed up the driveway. I discussed the EXACT route for my "Test Ride" with Nancy and took two(2) cell phones (1 Apple, 1 Android), two bottles of water and a set of crossed fingers. My trip was short by my normal ride standards but being 25 miles from home on a 90++ degree day didn't sound like fun.

It was hard to remember all the stuff I did to this bike but I knew I had basically a new top end and all the gearbox adjustments and changes made for a bit of finger biting those first few miles. After a couple miles on Georgia 85 South (not the interstate) I started opening her up a bit, then testing the brakes and trying to get a feel for the machine. It feels a little "Wierd" vs. my other XS11's but that is likely due to the Tank, Bars, and modified/thin seat.

Overall, it ran quite well, has a bunch of power (like all XS11's) and felt good in the 70-80mph range. Due to the new ring I decided to continuously vary the RPMS not staying at one point for too long.

I'm going to double-check the carb balance and then richen up the mixture a little using the ColorTune as a guide...... Had a bit of LEAN POP on a couple deceleration events.








Should be ready for the Vintage Yamaha Rally without a problem!!