XS11 Pensacola - Resto/Mod

[red bandit]

Not sure but might be worth it to see if it can be welded back on. If you are going to scrap it what do you have to loose?

[DiverRay]

De-greased well, and it can be TIGed back together. I welded up a motor mount on Special Ed's bike a few years ago. It was snapped when someone turned into his lane. Acetone will clean up the metal. Soak the small part in some for a while, and pour some over the other part a few times, brushing with an old tooth brush, to get rid of the oils.

[kboehringer]

Thanks for the input friends..... Ya'll got me thinking!

It's been a year or two since I did any TIG welding but it's sort of like riding a bike..... In my new position I have full access to a brand new and extremely complete Miller MIG, TIG, STICK set-up. I have the Tungsten and the Aluminum filler rod with 100% Argon shielding gas. I may give this a go... What have I got to lose? A bad case...

I'm also thinking of Mike's question(s). Yes, I do have a complete box of all the assorted color coded bearings for the XS11. But I was also thinking that if the bearings don't show any abnormal signs of wear I might just replace the bottom case to retain the matching numbers. All the cases should have been line bored identical. The real difference is the turning on the crank that dictated the bearings used on each journal. If the bearings look good as is, I may just check them with a pasti-gauge and give a bottom replacement a whirl if they all check out..... Heck, I have three more full motors. Biggest risk is this bike sits another couple years til the pissed off wears off! LOL.

Thinking Thinking Thinking..... First will likely be an attempt at TIG.

[kboehringer]

XS11 Friends,

Motor disassembly has begun and this 43 year old b****h is fighting me at every nut & bolt! The head/cylinder studs were all rusted into the aluminum head making removal and absolute nightmare! Several days pulling and prying, soaking with KroilOil and more pulling, prying, and smacking with a rubber hammer, dead blow, and then an ACTUAL HAMMER! Finally, the head and the cylinders are OFF. YES, there was some minor fin damage, but probably be invisible without being pointed out.



I managed to pull the motor without damaging any of that beautiful powder coating. I pulled more off than I usually would to make the motor light enough to pull myself without help.



The machine had good compression at ~125-130 across the board, although I have no idea how she managed that! Several of the rings were absolutely STUCK, end gaps were misaligned, and the oil ports in the oil ring grooves and the skirt ports were all completely full of crud. I gave the pistons a nice bath in 70c Simple Green & water mix in the Ultrasonic Washer and they look like new. The pistons will be new rings (STD) and I'll double check the end gaps to make sure they're pretty close (file only if necessary). I have a decent bottle-brush hone and will try to give the cylinders a little cross-hatch pattern.





The head/valves look pretty crappy with 69k miles on the ticker the valves will all need to be cleaned and then the head will get new valve seals. Otherwise, the head seems totally serviceable with good looking cams, nice exhaust studs, new intake boots, and only one slightly damaged fin. Fortunately, all my VERY AGGRESSIVE removal methods did not cause any damage to the cylinder head sealing surfaces.





NOW TO THE BOTTOM END, where the problem is that started this event.....
I'm still up in arms about what to do with this. I don't believe there is anyway to reach around this broken off chunk and PROPERLY TIG it back on. No way my TIG rig can fit up behind there. I could probably get a tack on it from two sides but that's it. The other complication is the coating Yamaha put on the inside surfaces of the cases. That coating will have to come off or the weld will be contaminated..... Just doesn't seem doable.



I've taken a good look around at those gears and was expecting to see REAL damage. I don't see anything and it appears the washer swap has been done already (I don't remember doing it on this motor).

I have a LOT of work to do to before I have to make a decision (cleaning and preparing head, cylinders, etc.) Here are my options....

1. 1980 XS1100 Bottom End In-Stock - Motor dropped a valve so I pulled the top end and tossed it all (saved the shims - LOL). Concerned the bottom may be contaminated from the failure...I only saved the bottom end for the gears, clutch, etc. etc. Didn't plan on putting it in service as is.
2. 1980 XS1100 Engine In-Stock - This is a complete motor of unknown condition. This was the standard I grabbed a couple years ago for $100. I saved the whole motor but have no idea of condition, It had good compression that's all I know.
3. 1981 XJ1100 Engine In-Stock - This is another complete motor of unknown condition. Got this one from Brent and it was stuck hard. Several days of lube and tinkering and it turns over now. Again, an unknown commodity that probably should have a complete overhaul.
4. I think I have another set of cases up in the attic.... SOMEWHERE in the piles of parts up there. I'm actually REALLY surprised the attic hasn't fallen into the garage already...

I'm still considering pulling the bottom case off the 1980 bottom end (item #1 above) and just slapping it on this '79 motor top half. I have yet the pull the bottom end off my "rack" but if it has the same bearings (4-4-1-4-1) that'll be the plan for sure. I'll pull all the bearings from the '79 and put them in the '80 case with all the '79's rotating components. This would allow me to retain the numbers match on a '79 (with a clean title). However, is it really that darn important to retain these numbers on a custom bike? Is some idiot someday gonna want to turn this thing back into a stock '79? I think NOT! When I'm dead my kids will probably take $50 each for these bikes anyway.

I still have a few hours/days to decide what to do with this bottom end.....

UGH... What a mess.

[Ranger_xs1100]

Great Pictures that go along well with a very interesting project rebuild. The joys of a Yama-Motor rebuild are sometimes/often painful! Looking forward to the next episode. Thanks, Kurt, for the posts.

[Radioguylogs]

I am enjoying watching the journey, especially with such good pictures.

Somehow the Z28 sneaked into the garage and displaced the Trans Am?

[kboehringer]

Somehow the Z28 sneaked into the garage and displaced the Trans Am?

Mike,
Yes, the Z-28 has taken over top billing, for the relatively short term. The Z-28 will be relocating to South Carolina with my son at some point in the late spring or early summer. The Z-28 was a father/son project when my son was in high school. It's been sitting too long and needed a bit of upgrading as well. So far it has new rotors, calipers, struts, brake lines, wheel bearings, tie- rod ends, plugs, plug wires, carb cleaned, and a few other touch-up items. The tires "LOOK" good but a close inspection reveals a good bit of dry rot so those will be replaced as well. Once I have it done, I will drive it over to South Carolina and re-unite my son and his High School ride. Since I am certain he will be driving my grandbabies around in it (Billy & Leann) I have to make sure it is 100% safe and reliable. MY baby is sitting outside under covers waiting to be returned to the warm & dry garage.


KURT

[kboehringer]

The EASY stuff is done.....

New rings installed on the pistons, cylinders have been cross-hatched with the bottle brush hone, and the SOB gasket completely removed from the base.
Head sitting ready for install with base o-rings and gasket.... THIS CHORE IS DONE.


All new valve seals installed on the Intakes and Exhausts. Cleaned all the valves on my BRASS wire wheel to get 43 years of carbon off of them. Valve seats looked good and I read somewhere that lapping valves on these heads is a bad idea so with no obvious defects a little cleaning and back together she went. the OEM '79 Valve seals were HARD AS A ROCK! I'm certain now that with new seals and new rings any smoking will be a thing of the past!



I was cautious not to take any real material off the head but the ONLY way to clean this up was with a mild scotch-brite on the die grinder. Most of the internal combustion chamber cleaning was done with a mini wire wheel on a Dremel. I still plan to run a drill bit through the mounting stud holes to make sure all the rust from the mounting studs is gone for good.


Temp is a bout 45f here in Georgia today.... Time to bundle up and take a bike out for a ride.... Time to take a rest and tackle the case tonight (or tomorrow after work).

Lets go for a chilly little ride!!!

KURT

[Radioguylogs]

The amount of work you get done in one day takes me 3-4 weeks.

I realized the same thing about lapping valves- that you don't want to wear down the three facet shape of the soft valve seat. I still did a light lapping when I did the head on one of my Triples; just enough to see a consistent grey ring around the perimeter.

I had trouble bending the shaft of my brush hone when I used it. I ran it at 1200 RPM and pushed it in and out almost as fast as my arms could do it. Turns out I moved it in/out too fast and ended up with 70-90 degree cross hatching instead of 45 degrees. That engine was fine none-the-less.

Beautiful Camaro.

[2manybikes]

I agree, its amazing what you can accomplish in just an evening some times. I'm enjoying the thread as usual!

[kboehringer]

XS11 Friends,

The cases are split....... if you ever wanted to see the guts of an XS11 ..... Here's your chance - LOL



The spare bottom end looks serviceable and doesn't have a broken oil pump flange...
The bearing callouts stamped in the base appear to be IDENTICAL to the original '79 base.
The main bearings in the '79 show some wear but nothing down to the copper as I've seen in other motors.
I'll pop the main bearings out of the old case and transplant into the '80 donor bottom case and start re-assembly.



There is one minor casualty which should be an easy fix......one of the edge seal bolts snapped off... A little work and this one will come out....




NOTE; Someone has absolutely been into the gears before and performed the washer swap. None of the gears look too bad (I've seen MUCH worse). I do see a LOT of unusual wear on the 5th (?) gear shift fork, it must be replaced and I have the spares somewhere. I'm beginning to wonder if my original problem is related to a frozen or damaged clutch..... I'll inspect everything very closely but suspect something else is going on in here to make this thing ack like it's eating gears......

KURT

[kboehringer]

I'm not sure tis photo shows the fork wear very well but it's there.



There should actually be a slight rise or bump on the ends of the fork which are not only worn off but the gear has been diggin into the fork.

KURT

[ZukulruG]

Post delete for cause!!

[Bax]

kboehringer Hi Kurt, great progress. It's been years since I was in a XS11 transmission so my memory is a bit ..... Just seeing your shift fork pic jogged the past. I seem to remember that the outer shift forks were different but similar and could be rotated and swapped on the guide rod inadvertently. I don't remember if that mixup would assemble into the transmission but in your case it would seem the PO was a bit forceful in the assembly after the washer swap...... Maybe something to check as the wear from the abnormal axial loading is very concerning.

---Bax

[2WheelFun]

If I remember correctly, the forks were numbered. I sure hope it wasn't just a washer swap that caused that damage.