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**Bonz** · 07-28-2017, 08:40 AM

That is one colorful thread!

With all that work you shared that you did and that it runs perfectly, other than dumping fuel out the airbox which was the genesis of starting this thread, Get 4 o-rings for the needle seats and be done with it!

I'll bet you a dollar, a doughnut and a cup of coffee that is where the leak is coming from.

**3Phase** · 07-28-2017, 10:50 AM

Nice work!

Welcome to the forum, Gunny, you have been a busy beaver and I like your use of color!

As Bonz mentioned, you should check the float needle seat o-rings, they shrink and harden with heat and age. You mentioned carb kits but didn't say if you had already bought and installed them or not so... put some clear plastic lines on the carburetor float bowl drains, then start the engine and check the dynamic fuel levels in the float bowls when the engine is running. The fuel levels should be all be below the carburetor body, 3m +/- 1mm (0.12 inch +/- 0.04 inch). The fuel levels should all drop when you blip the throttle, then immediately refill and recover.

After you shut off the engine, don't move the bike or the hoses, leave them connected. It may take a while (overnight?) but you'll be able to spot any carburetors that overfill and flood the air box.

It's going to involve more money and time but you should get some new brake hoses and clean or rebuild the brake calipers and master cylinders. Teflon hoses with stainless steel braiding are the best but new rubber hoses will work just fine. The important thing is that they're all old and the Murphy can pop them at any time. Mine did it as I pulled into the garage and I kept rolling, hit the shelves on the side wall, scared the cats and so on but I was lucky I'd already slowed down to pull in the garage, it could have been a whole different story with no funny ending.

The pictures in the threads you listed are stored on Photobucket and they recently stopped serving them to remote websites like the forum here on XS11.com unless you have a paid account. The images are still there for the threads, right-click them and they should open in another page, tab, window, or whatever your browser will use. It's not as convenient as seeing them all on one page in the message(s) but it does work.

**GUNNY1966** · 07-28-2017, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Bonz View Post

That is one colorful thread!

With all that work you shared that you did and that it runs perfectly, other than dumping fuel out the airbox which was the genesis of starting this thread, Get 4 o-rings for the needle seats and be done with it!

I'll bet you a dollar, a doughnut and a cup of coffee that is where the leak is coming from.

Your probably correct in your statement Bonz- Get 4 o-rings for the needle seats & this is exactly what I'm going to do. I've searched for kits but haven't located any as of yet but that's probably because I've been sleeping all day! This is the first weekend I've had off for a month, we've been pumping out the MY17 / 18 bikes at work!

**GUNNY1966** · 07-28-2017, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by 3Phase View Post

Welcome to the forum, Gunny, you have been a busy beaver and I like your use of color!

As Bonz mentioned, you should check the float needle seat o-rings, they shrink and harden with heat and age. You mentioned carb kits but didn't say if you had already bought and installed them or not so... put some clear plastic lines on the carburetor float bowl drains, then start the engine and check the dynamic fuel levels in the float bowls when the engine is running. The fuel levels should be all be below the carburetor body, 3m +/- 1mm (0.12 inch +/- 0.04 inch). The fuel levels should all drop when you blip the throttle, then immediately refill and recover.

After you shut off the engine, don't move the bike or the hoses, leave them connected. It may take a while (overnight?) but you'll be able to spot any carburetors that overfill and flood the air box.

It's going to involve more money and time but you should get some new brake hoses and clean or rebuild the brake calipers and master cylinders. Teflon hoses with stainless steel braiding are the best but new rubber hoses will work just fine. The important thing is that they're all old and the Murphy can pop them at any time. Mine did it as I pulled into the garage and I kept rolling, hit the shelves on the side wall, scared the cats and so on but I was lucky I'd already slowed down to pull in the garage, it could have been a whole different story with no funny ending.

The pictures in the threads you listed are stored on Photobucket and they recently stopped serving them to remote websites like the forum here on XS11.com unless you have a paid account. The images are still there for the threads, right-click them and they should open in another page, tab, window, or whatever your browser will use. It's not as convenient as seeing them all on one page in the message(s) but it does work.

I didn't mention a few parts but I did rebuild all the brake calipers, I just forgot to add that to the list of parts!

As for the brake lines you mentioned stainless steel braid, where did you get those or did you have them special order or ??? Sounds like a great idea & I'm game!

You mention a paid account, I assume you mean here on XS ??? I'd be glad to join / donate, I'll look into that!!![/b]

**Bonz** · 07-28-2017, 07:40 PM

Harbor freight sells a Viton O-ring assortment kit. I used some from that kit on my ZRX 40mm carburetors with press-in needle seats and they worked great. They aren't exact however they work very well. I would expect similar success with the XS.

Or this option from eBay and you have everything to rebuild the carbs fully including the four O-rings for the needle seats.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-83-Yama...38.m2548.l4275

**3Phase** · 07-28-2017, 08:40 PM

I wouldn't ever use another Harbor Freight Viton o-ring again, the ones I tried in my XJ11 to seal the oil pump to the engine case and to seal the main oil gallery between the upper and lower engine case halves both MELTED, then started to dissolve in hot engine oil after about 2,000 miles.
I don't know what kind of cheap plastic Harbor Freight used to make them but it's definitely not Viton.

One example of a decent Nitrile (Buna-N) o-ring kit is from Fastenal and I have a local outlet in town but there are a lot of other options:-

https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0414190

386Pc Nitrile Metric Maintenance Kit O-Ring Kit
Fastenal Part No. (SKU): 0414190
UNSPSC: 31401503
Manufacturer: Fastenal Approved Vendor
This is a Standard Catalog Item

Here are some Yamaha o-rings at Partzilla.com:-

Home / OEM Parts / Yamaha / Motorcycle / 1982 / XJ1100J / CARBURETOR:

#46 O-RING
8F2-14147-00-00 $5.26 $3.97 4 each

Originally posted by GUNNY1966 View Post

I didn't mention a few parts but I did rebuild all the brake calipers, I just forgot to add that to the list of parts!

Heh, rebuild or replace what you can but cleaning the crud/corrosion out of the caliper o-ring groove is the most important part.

Originally posted by GUNNY1966 View Post

As for the brake lines you mentioned stainless steel braid, where did you get those or did you have them special order or ??? Sounds like a great idea & I'm game!

I have to send you to another site but I believe it's worth it. Take your time and read through the information on xjbikes.com, then get in touch with the vendor, chacal, the owner of XJForever and one of the XS1100/XJ1100 rally sponsors.

Chacal's parts can be expensive but he has some factory parts for sale and a lot of top quality aftermarket parts for the entire range of Yamaha XJs, not just the 1100. There are a lot of less expensive, not cheap, options but Chacal and a few XS/XJ owners went through the hoops to get all of his brake hose assemblies DOT Certified and to ensure that they will bolt on and work, they're not just a pile of individually DOT certified parts that you have to assemble and the SNAFU is on you.

xjbikes.com | forums | forums | xj4ever -- supporting-vendor.23

Originally posted by GUNNY1966 View Post

You mention a paid account, I assume you mean here on XS ??? I'd be glad to join / donate, I'll look into that!!!

No, XS11.com would love the donation but can't do pictures. You need an account on an image hosting site, then post the link to the image in your message.

http://www.photobucket.com/ is still free and you can link to the pictures but they won't show the pictures on a remote web site. Unless you have one of their paid accounts, all you see on the page is their new error JPG. I got lucky and paid for an account before they dropped the hammer so my pictures still work and I have a couple of years to see what happens to Photobucket.

My XJ1100 on the way to the July, 2017 rally in Kremmling, CO

**TopCatGr58** · 07-28-2017, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by 3Phase View Post

http://www.photobucket.com/ is still free and you can link to the pictures but they won't show the pictures on a remote web site. Unless you have one of their paid accounts, all you see on the page is their new error JPG. I got lucky and paid for an account before they dropped the hammer so my pictures still work and I have a couple of years to see what happens to Photobucket.

Hey Scott,

PB shut off even just LINKING for free accounts. I just tried it with the thread that he linked which was from CrazySteve, and after all of the adds were shut down, it left me viewing the same ERROR image! Apparently ONLY your grandfathered paid account will work with just the link vs. the embedded photo.

I'm trying to view just the root directory of Steve's account to then try to access the albums so I can download the photos, and then upload them to the XS11 server account so I can fix the photos!? But so far, NO JOY!

**3Phase** · 07-28-2017, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by TopCatGr58 View Post

Hey Scott,

PB shut off even just LINKING for free accounts. I just tried it with the thread that he linked which was from CrazySteve, and after all of the adds were shut down, it left me viewing the same ERROR image! Apparently ONLY your grandfathered paid account will work with just the link vs. the embedded photo.

I'm trying to view just the root directory of Steve's account to then try to access the albums so I can download the photos, and then upload them to the XS11 server account so I can fix the photos!? But so far, NO JOY!

Well, that sautees big green zucchinis. Maybe I can see the pictures when I follow the links because I have a paid account.

**Bonz** · 07-28-2017, 10:27 PM

Bummer you had a problem, Scott. I'm not sure which viton O-rings you used, not that there is any other viton besides viton.

. The ones I am using from Harbor freight are a brown color.

The ones from the kit I bought have been in the ZRX carbs for over 20,000 miles, and I have used them as petcock o-rings and going strong for tens of thousands of miles. Would not hesitate to recommend them based on that experience.

**3Phase** · 07-28-2017, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Bonz View Post

Bummer you had a problem, Scott. I'm not sure which viton O-rings you used, not that there is any other viton besides viton.

. The ones I am using from Harbor freight are a brown color.

The ones from the kit I bought have been in the ZRX carbs for over 20,000 miles, and I have used them as petcock o-rings and going strong for tens of thousands of miles. Would not hesitate to recommend them based on that experience.

I know what Viton looks like and how it's supposed to feel. These look sort of alright but don't feel right. I'm glad the ones you bought have held up to prolonged exposure to fuel but I won't use them for anything except low-temp vibration dampers, spacers, maybe a stylish necklace or a wristband.

Harbor Freight | 180 Piece Viton O-Ring Kit
Storehouse® - Item#67525

Real Viton's temperature range is -26°C to +205°/230°C (-15°F to +400°/440°F).

In my XJ's engine, this alleged Viton o-ring separated and melted to the engine case and the oil pump.

Oil pump side.

Engine case side.

After only a little over a month and 2,000 miles on the engine, there is absolutely no way there were enough hours on it even if the oil temp got anywhere close to the lower 200C/400F spec to impart a heat set to a Viton o-ring, much less melt and separate it.

**GUNNY1966** · 07-29-2017, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by Bonz View Post

Harbor freight sells a Viton O-ring assortment kit. I used some from that kit on my ZRX 40mm carburetors with press-in needle seats and they worked great. They aren't exact however they work very well. I would expect similar success with the XS.

Or this option from eBay and you have everything to rebuild the carbs fully including the four O-rings for the needle seats.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-83-Yama...38.m2548.l4275

Well the Ebay O-rings are a fail according to the information I got!

https://gyazo.com/9c99e1f2828ad0fce962f64804920873

**GUNNY1966** · 07-29-2017, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by TopCatGr58 View Post

Hey Scott,

PB shut off even just LINKING for free accounts. I just tried it with the thread that he linked which was from CrazySteve, and after all of the adds were shut down, it left me viewing the same ERROR image! Apparently ONLY your grandfathered paid account will work with just the link vs. the embedded photo.

I'm trying to view just the root directory of Steve's account to then try to access the albums so I can download the photos, and then upload them to the XS11 server account so I can fix the photos!? But so far, NO JOY!

It's kind of a hassle TOPCAT but I guess I can use the Gyazo screen shot tool & make any adjustments I want & make use of the Windows Paint program but still one would need to go to the link posted to view any pics.! Is there any other way to do it??? I'll research a bit & see if I can come up with a solution! p.s. I donated some $$ to the site in hopes it helps! Thank You :-)

**CaptonZap** · 07-29-2017, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by GUNNY1966 View Post

It's kind of a hassle TOPCAT but I guess I can use the Gyazo screen shot tool & make any adjustments I want & make use of the Windows Paint program but still one would need to go to the link posted to view any pics.! Is there any other way to do it??? I'll research a bit & see if I can come up with a solution! p.s. I donated some $$ to the site in hopes it helps! Thank You :-)

This, from another forum;

Try this hack on the photo address.
After the .jpg before the [/img] put ~original
.jpg~original[/img]
This will get all the PB photos showing again, for the moment at least!
__________________
Marcus
aka. Gojeep
Victoria, Australia
www.go.jeep-xj.info

**GUNNY1966** · 07-29-2017, 10:10 AM

How To Replace Deteriorated Needle Seat O-Rings

So I gathered up the necessary tools & cleaned off the work bench & started tearing down the carbs..

* NOTE * When removing the bowl assembly, use the correct Phillips screwdriver that fits the screw!!

I tried 4 different heads from my Snap Off box before I found a Matco driver that fit the full depth of the screws. I might also add I could tell someone had been into the carbs before as the screws were slightly damaged from someone using the incorrect driver head as shown in the following pic.!

https://gyazo.com/ffac8118ec39cd3c52e0abd4c5884b05

https://gyazo.com/d66257af7db5b256c1730640df4451ce

Once I had removed the bowl I noticed they were extremely dirty which reminds me why I had purchased 2 filters to place in the gas line AFTER the petcocks. Also there was some deteriorated rubber which can be seen in the pics.

https://gyazo.com/b0dc3de279c024ee8501109fac879b83

Also I did away with the plastic "T" fittings & got some brass fittings * NOTE * I had to cut them down in size as they were extremely to long.

https://gyazo.com/c1b0cbf90327e2e3ef899bd0d3e1a41e

* NOTE *When removing the floats a small punch & small hammer may be required to remove the pin that retains the floats.

https://gyazo.com/0d5db0249c8e3a948dbaaeb98898ad2e

Once the float pin has been removed "GENTLY / CAREFULLY" remove the float & needle valve as shown in the following pic, Failure to do so will change the dynamic float level!

https://gyazo.com/b4d80d4bc0ea58440606a78cced51652

Once the screw & retainer have been removed gently lift out the float valve o-ring assembly. See the following pic for further detail! Do NOT blow them out facing you, they may have debris & or gas inside them!!

https://gyazo.com/73c7ec6dcef3c42ced3ec7131a7b722c

Used compressed air to blow thru the fuel supply to clean out the deteriorated rubber & or any other dirt, VIEW the following pic.

https://gyazo.com/2a21e2d17673d81843638cf17eac7e92

Since you have gone this far now is also the best time to remove both the HIGH end jet & the Low end jet. Be sure to use the right size straight screw driver to do this so you don't break or damage the heads of the jets. In the following picture you will see both jets shown in more detail.

https://gyazo.com/ecb7713939b9a71a08557726388818c3

After cleaning everything & now that you have installed the new O-rings simply reverse the steps you took to remove each item, pretty simple!
It's not always necessary to replace the bowl gaskets unless you have damaged them during the bowl removal or while cleaning. You should also visually inspect EVERYTHING while reassembling. Also inspect the supply inlets to be certain they are not loose or leaking, if they were leaking you would need to replace the O-rings throughout the supply inlets.

I called a local shop & they wanted $245 in labor & that doesn't include the parts. By doing this yourself & following each of the steps carefully one can save some $$$.

If I missed anything feel free to reply & be sure to read the rest of the thread as I cannot edit this post! Others may have suggestions or advice that may be important & worthy, I am HUMAN after all!!

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Carbs Flooding the airbox & more!

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