1980 XS11 Special - Ugly Duckling Rebuild

[3Phase]

Kurt, you do really good work!

Take a look at this thread over on the XL Forum about modding the stock Harley mufflers by opening 'em up with a hole saw to pull the baffles. It's six pages with pictures and it even shows how to skin a cat':-

xlforum net: Gronk's standard muffler mod

The mod is for 'sound' but you might be able to find another scrap HD muffler with the 'long' baffle, then gleep the guts for your muffler with the 'short' baffle and Robert is your father's brother. Or change the 'long' baffle for a shorty, who knows.

.

[kboehringer]

Ugly Swan?

XS Folks,

It looks like the “Ugly Duckling Rebuild” is getting close to finality. I suspect in a couple weeks this thread will die off. However, there are a few things left to finish and I’ll keep the thread posted up until those are done to have the activity posted complete from A to Z as the “Ugly Ducking” is pretty close to being a slightly unattractive “Swan”. I'll likely need a few more tid-bits of advice on a couple of the following items.........

Here’s what seems to be remaining to resolve/repair:

Front Tire: The 12 year old front tire will be replaced within a week. I have all new bearings to install with it. Hopefully, this will eliminate a little vibration I feel is probably excessive. Now that it’s August I can BUY AGAIN!

Front forks: Clean and change the oil. Marty has given me some information about a local (ATL area) company that can rebuild my forks to a much higher level of performance. Unfortunately, the time before XSSE is getting too close to get that done beforehand. The cleaning and oil change will have to do until the winter months.

Vibrations: I’ve been giving the bike a steady diet of 60, and 100 mile trips. I’m thinking the vibrations I feel at higher speeds may be related to motor mounts/vibration dampers in conjunction with the crappy front tire. I’m also pretty sure I did not get a proper balance job done on the rear tire which I paid for with the mounting. I’ll be pulling the weights and installing the “RIDE-ON” in both tires. FYI. Neither Yamaha dealer in my area has ever heard of “RIDE-ON”. I’ll need to get it from Evil-Bay

High Idle When Warm: The bike seems to hold a 2k idle when warm. I can pull it down with a little clutch and it will then stay at/about 1100. BUT, pulling up to a stop sign or traffic signal at a higher idle is a little bit of a PITA. Kinda wondering what’s causing this at temp. Bike idles PERFECTLY cold or after a short ride. A long ride when the motor gets nice an toasty seems to cause this effect. Carbs are clean as a whistle….

Head Lamp Relay: I’m working with our factory master electrician to identify a relay from Autozone that can be used to replace the OMRON that has failed for the headlamp. I’m not paying $30+/- for a 35 year old used one and I’m also not paying $120 for a supposed NOS item. We think there is a $7 +/- item from Autozone that will work.

Water Test: I haven’t driven in the rain yet although I was almost caught in it yesterday. I don’t want my first ride in the rain to come on my trip to/from XSSE and the bike has never been in the rain. The wiring harness was replaced and dozens of the supporting wires from the: alt., advance, handle bar controls, coils, lighting, and fuse block have all been repaired or replaced in one form or another. I’m thinking of starting her up this weekend and spraying the crap out of her with the garden hose to make sure nothing is effected by a little water. Thoughts????

Misc. Items:
The Speedo is a little bouncy but will settle out with steady throttle but it is a little distracting, the cable is brand new with proper lubrication.
Rear brake SS line has not yet been ordered from Len at XJBikes but I’ll get that done shortly (before XSSE).
Carb #4 is damaged at the mixture screw and I would like to replace that carb but it doesn’t seem to be hurting me on performance.
The HD exhaust is great but I will want to add the longer baffle into the right side at some point in the future.
Cleaning, Cleaning, Cleaning, there is still a fair amount of black on the bike/motor from the PO’s ridiculous spray can fiasco.
I’m going to spray the tank again to get a little better coverage as I really rushed the paint a couple months ago. A light wet-sand and a nice re-spray. The side covers and tank underside will be left alone as they look pretty close to perfect in my eyes.

Respectfully,
Kurt

[kboehringer]

Fork Oil Change - MUD

XS Folks,

Getting a LITTLE closer to done with the Duck.
FORK OIL CHANGE:

Friday Night, I pulled the handle bars and the mounts for the windscreen UGH and got started on the fork oil change.

I drained the left fork and pulled the spring. The "Oil" that came out can only be described with one word..... MUD! What a darn mess in there.....mud, rust, trash, muck, probably NEVER been cleaned.

I pulled the plug on the right fork and nothing came out. I had to take a couple q-tips and poke through the hole and finally a little MUD dribbled out. I guess the right fork had about 1/4 as much "fluid" as the left which was itself probably 30%+ lower than the 225ml I eventually put in it.

I did a little unconventional cleaning. As I really wanted to drive Saturday and didn't want to take them apart without seals in my hands. After I saw the mud dribble out of the forks I poured some mineral spirits into each fork and bounced the heck out of the front end. I drained and re-flushed the forks until the liquid coming out was clear. I allowed them to completely drain out.

I washed the heck out of the springs with simple green and water and then blew them dry with compressed air. They were full of CRUD.

Marty suggested I try to get the oil level to 130mm from the top without springs and with the front compressed. But I didn't have enough 10w. I only bought a pint and assumed I had enough when I bought it several weeks ago. I started by putting 225ml in each fork (without springs as instructed). When I pulled the front end down the oil wouldn't even reach my ruler (max length 150). I checked my jug and there was merely a dribble of oil left so I figured just close it up and get a couple pints of oil for the proper cleaning this will get in a week or so.

We drove to Warm Springs yesterday and I didn't notice too much of a difference. I put in the maximum air for a full load at 14# (Me, Nancy, Soft Bags). I see the right folk seal must be crap (why it was extra low) as I have dripping coming from the top of the tube/seal after the 90+ mile ride.

I will have to completely disassemble the forks and clean and replace the seals. For now, the new oil may help dislodge any remaining MUD making the future clean easier.

KURT

[Rasputin]

Thing is, that now you can confirm that just pulling the screw at the bottom of the forks and draining it, then refilling is bunk! If they are not completely cleaned they will never ride correctly. I love it when someone like yourself will confirm "MUD". Good Job.

[kboehringer]

SS Brake Line - HCP18710CLRST - XJBikes.com

XS Folks,
Couldn't find a better place to post this but wanted to share photo & info. on the SS brake lines from XJBikes.com.



Got this piece from LEN and it fits perfectly. Removed three antique pieces and replaced with one DOT approved line. The line fits perfect and is a nice looking piece too. Maybe the guys looking for a perfect restoration might be more interested in retaining the original look of the three-piece set. Len has those too. I like being able to STOP and this line fits the bill for me!

Updates on the DUCK (no longer the ugly duckling)......

GAS TANK #2
Kinda screwed myself with an attempted repaint on the #1 tank. I had an area that looked a little thin and I decided to give her a quick shot of paint to get 'er nice & pretty for XSSE. Well..... I'd been using the heck out of my little compressor working on the muffler project with the Zip wheels and I didn't remember to check the water separator on the compressor before I started painting... Darn thing was full and I sprayed oily water with my paint and fish-eyed the tank pretty bad.

While I had the tank off I noticed the rust was bit worse inside than I had remembered.... Purchased a nice replacement tank from Bill Kapherr. This is the status as of today.... Needs a bit more work before primer can be applied....

I'll keep the other on til this is done and then keep it as an emergency spare.

KICK STARTER:
While I was at Bill's shop I was able to get the last two missing pieces I need to give my SG an emergency only kickstart option.... I THINK I can get these in there without pulling the whole world apart? Everything else is in there and ready to go.....


EXHAUST:
I'm pretty happy with the Harley muffs after fabricating and installing a full baffle in the one without. Still has a throaty sound I'm starting to get use to.


FORK SEAL/CLEANING:
FINALLY, the fork seals have showed up from Michigan....Kinda thinking this seller must have been making them custom in his garage they took soooo long to get. Looks like my next weekend will be pulling and PROPERLY cleaning the forks!!!

That's it for the Duck for now.

KURT

[kboehringer]

A bit of work to finish for Saturday Driving

XS Folks,
As promised, I finally got the old front tire pulled in favor of a new Pirelli Route MT66 (matching the rear). These were highly recommended by Marty as a good value for the buck and I followed his advice. The OLD front didn't actually look bad at all but it was about nine(9) years old (2006 manufacture). Even though it looked good on the outside, it wasn't worth the risk(s).


New bearings go along with the new tire!

FORKS:
Last night after I pulled the tire I took the forks COMPLETELY apart and cleaned them. What a MESS. Rasputin is 110% correct, draining and changing the fluid is not a valid method of reconditioning these!!!! I suspect they have not been clean in 35 years!!! Last week, before I had new seals in-hand, I changed the fluid and flushed the forks with mineral spirits. That work may have helped dislodge some of the crud but it absolutely did not clean them. The 1-week old 10w looked like MUD after only a week or so of driving. These forks are now ABSOLUTELY SPOTLESS inside and have new seals and new fluids. Hopefully, their will be a noticeable difference in performance?

I'm looking forward to my new front end.... Gotta go get 'er done!!!!!

Respectfully,
KURT

[jetmechmarty]

XS Folks,
As promised, I finally got the old front tire pulled in favor of a new Pirelli Route MT66 (matching the rear). These were highly recommended by Marty as a good value for the buck and I followed his advice.
Respectfully,
KURT

I just had a look at mine. They're about done. The rear is at 6K and the front is almost 8K. That's about all I can hope to get on any tire. So, 6K is good for me and the tire performs well and is fairly inexpensive. I'll go get another pair shortly and be sure to get a rear tire for the rear this time.

[MaximPhil]

Hey Marty,
The penalty of living in a motorcycle playground
A least your tires do not die of old age
Phil

[kboehringer]

Major Screw Up!

XS Folks,

Well guys..... Just seems to be my luck with the "Duck"......

Assembly almost complete and I look at the tire, polished forks, nice smooth spin in great admiration and notice Pirelli ROUTE MT 66 "TT". WT?! I got the wrong darn tire.. TUBE TYPE on the TUBELESS RIM!!

I was so happy with the look (but didn't look close enough) and the fact that the Mech didn't put a scratch on my recently polished rim that I gave him a $10 tip! CRAP... Guess he wasn't as good as I had hoped for.....

I ordered the tire over the phone from the local Yamaha shop. I am CERTAIN I said TUBELESS. My son dropped the rim & old tire off this morning and I picked it up 15 minutes before closing today...... WHAT A MESS! I guess I'll be spending another $90 on a Pirelli TUBELESS tire..... DARN IT! (I would prefer to use a much more colorful set of 4-letter words!)

Darn It!

Respectfully,
KURT

[jetmechmarty]

I went to the local place in the spring for a pair of tires. The rear tire was completely worn out after 1800 miles. It turns out they put a front tire on the rear rim. Stuff happens. They were good enough to replace the tire on their dime. I'll go back for another pair in the coming days. It was aggravating when it happened, but they turned it around so I have a positive view of it in retrospect. Hopefully, your experience will be similar. I thought all street bike tires were tubeless anymore.

[MPittma100]

Tube Type Tire

I will ask the stupid question. Can you not just add a tube to enable use of this tire?

[kboehringer]

Rim Profile differences.....

I will ask the stupid question. Can you not just add a tube to enable use of this tire?

Mike,
Actually, the profile of the rim is different when the rim is designed for a tube. There is a nice smooth indentation to accommodate the tube. The rim lips on a Tube vs. Tubeless tire CAN also be different in some cases.

I did a great deal of investigation last evening and there is a SLIM chance this set-up is OK with Pirelli. I downloaded a complete Pirelli technical manual.

The Pirelli web-site/manual (semi-broken English) indicates that if there is a leak in a tubeless Pirelli tire a Pirelli tube may be used for a short period of time until the tire can be repaired. It does go into some detail about the profile differences from tube to tubeless designed rims.

I could not find any clear or specific mention of the Pirelli TT tire. BUT, they did say not to run any Pirelli tire without a tube unless the OEM recommended tubeless operation. I wish it had said you MAY run a TT type tire on a tubeless rim without the tube.

I also found the following in the Pirelli Manual:

• Liquid balancing products are not approved for use in Pirelli tires and the tire warranty is void if used. Tires must be balanced using weights approved by the OEM rim manufacturer.
• If a tube is used in a Pirelli tire the tube must be made by Pirelli or the warranty is void.

Other websites mentioned a strength of sidewall difference in a Tube vs. Tubeless designed tire. However, I saw no such mention on the Pirelli site or manual. My rear tire is engraved "Reinforced Tubeless" on the sidewall. That is not indicated on the TT front. That could be because it is a REAR and rated for use on a rear. It may have nothing to do with the tube or tubeless I can't find anything on it from Pirelli.

Although I'm actually more scared of this new tire than I was the 9+ year old Bridgestone, I'm gonna use it until the new one arrives. I won't be doing any long highway driving but I won't do any until I can either: confirm this tire is acceptable to Pirelli on a tubeless rim (without a tube) or the tire is replaced. I won't drive to XSSE on this tire & rim combination otherwise.

I'll be calling the dealer this morning to get a new tire ordered.

Respectfully,
KURT

[kboehringer]

Smooooooth Ride

They were good enough to replace the tire on their dime.

I won't be that lucky. The dealership is not accepting any responsibility for the wrong tire. I asked if they would at least eat the mounting and balancing and the parts guy will check with the Service Manager. Sounds like I'd be eating that too. I think the new Pirelli TUBELESS will be coming from another one of the three local Yamaha dealers....

I sent a note to Pirelli North America using their "Contact Us" link on the Pirelli web-site (U.S. Office is in Rome Georgia ). I don't believe they are going to tell me it's ok to run the TT tire on a Tubeless style rim without a Pirelli tube. I'm sure there is too much of a liability issue there. Maybe, they'll help me with the mistake in some other way? Ya' never know?

Smoooooother Ride.......
We took the Duck out for a short ride and it is INCREDIBLY smoooother than it was before the recent upgrades and repairs. I truly wish I could share with you folks which item had the greatest impact but I really don't know which item had the large effect as I did 'em all at once.

• The front tire is new (and I AM still a bit scared about it).
• The forks are spotless inside with new seals. Each fork has 255 ml of 10w bringing the oil level to the point Marty recommended at 130 mm from the top compressed without springs. The air is set a just under 10lbs.
• The wheel bearings are new and thoroughly packed with high temp bearing grease.
• All bolts are torqued to proper specification in the proper order.

I intentionally hit a couple bumps in the road that would normally send a thud through my arms and I didn't even feel 'em or hear 'em ........... Until they hit my 35 year old rear shocks! BANG!

After I get the new Tubeless front tire I plan to pull the swing arm and clean and pack it's bearings. I will also thoroughly inspect the U-joint and replace it if needed. The PO has packed the U-joint boot with what appears to be anti-seeze and there's no reason for that? I am also going to start investigating new/replacement shocks. I would like to retain the stock reflectors to keep a semi-stock look but that BANG feel in the back needs to be eliminated more than I need the stock look(s).

HOPEFULLY, the planned PM items to the rear will completely eliminate all the non-stock vibrations. The bike is extremely better with the front-end work complete. The PM work to the back end can only make things even better!

Respectfully,
KURT

[jetmechmarty]

Before you make a decision on shocks, I recommend you give a call to Traxxion Dynamics in Woodstock. They are the local experts and can get you exactly what you need, or at least, get you pointed in the right direction. I believe Mike Pittman sourced his there, and IIRC, they are Bitubo brand. The important part is they'll match the spring rate exactly to your needs. They certainly are nice looking units as well.

I have Progressive Suspension 412 series on mine. While they work fine and can be cost effective, I don't recommend them. They offer no help, so I had to guess on the spring rate and bought heavy duty. They weren't heavy enough, so I had to buy springs again, killing any cost effectiveness. Also, there's the fact that I do not like progressive springs on a motorcycle. Factor that into my opinion.

[kboehringer]

Tanks & Tires

GAS TANK #2
Kinda screwed myself with an attempted repaint on the #1 tank. .....While I had the tank off I noticed the rust was bit worse inside than I had remembered...I'll keep the other on til this is done and then keep it as an emergency spare.

Duck Tank Update:
The replacement tank has been painted and installed. I need to wait several more days to be sure the paint is totally cured before wet-sanding and buffing.

While I made the change of tanks I completely rebuild the petcocks with new O-rings & gaskets. I also performed the Prime selector mod blocking them off with a 5mm set screws.

AND tapping the cover holes to 6/32 and installing new SS screws.

I found that the remainder of the PO's tank sealant had failed so I pulled it out the fill hole and vacuumed the remaining rust out.


I still believe this is a viable emergency/back-up tank but it will need a proper cleaning and a re-coating of tank sealant. I'm going to check with the local radiator shop as I THINK they offer a tank cleaning service. Once complete, I'll re-coat the tank and properly repair and re-paint the exterior.

PIRELLI WOES....
I purchased and received the new TUBELESS Pirelli Route Front Tire. The dealership offered NO concession on the wrong tire. I've not heard a word from the Pirelli office on the matter. In addition, I ordered a replacement smoked visor for my HJC modular helmet and they ordered the wrong one. I'll be waiting a bit longer for that to show. Hopefully, it will be right next time.

Thanks to the Pirelli problem, the visor problem, etc. this particular Yamaha dealer (Newnan, GA) has seen the last of me (once I pick up the visor). This is NOT the same Yamaha dealer that sold me the cheap shims. That dealer mounted my rear tire but never balanced as promised and took 2-days when the service was offered to be done the same afternoon (Fayetteville, GA).... Now I have TWO Yamaha dealers I don't want to visit anymore. The final dealer in my area is the one that told me their mechanics don't work on street bikes with carbs. Are all Yamaha dealers this sucky?

I found out that my Daughter-In-Law's father has a motorcycle tire changing machine and the ability to balance tires. He's an avid bike racer and prefers Aprilla's and Ducatti's but has about 40 bikes of every shape and size. I'm going to his place tomorrow to mount the tire as I can't trust a dealer to get it right.....

Respectfully,
KURT