1980 XS11 Special - Ugly Duckling Rebuild

[kboehringer]

Compression Improvement ++ Marvel Mystery Oil!

XS11 Folks,

Seems the Marvel "Mystery" Oil helped make some improvement in compression. I spun the motor a bit and installed the plugs. She smoked a little but not too much. Took 'er over to the gas station for a fill up and a little bit of a ride to get 'er warmed up. The trip total was about 6 miles @ 35mph to 45mph. I wound 'er out to 7k a couple times and returned to do a compression test.



Looking at the lower half of the chart you'll notice the improvement in compression in the gray box area with red arrow. The #4 cylinder stayed the same at 130#.

Everyone that commented about stuck rings was correct. Tonight, after the bike is completely cold I may try a couple more tablespoons of MMO and let her sit for another day or so. I don't really expect it to improve the compression on it's own every day but it may be breaking some crud loose from between or behind the rings and a little more couldn't hurt????

The compression numbers are all still very low according to the spec. given in the manual. However, I'd be pretty darn happy with 130 across the board. and wouldn't even consider pulling it apart. I still need to do a shim re-check and will do that after a longer ride (that's why it's blank in chart).

I will be able to take a real ride this weekend. The front end feels a little "funny" so I'm going to look that over real well before any longer trip.
I'll put some new Yama-Lube and a new filter in it before the ride. I'll report any compression improvement after the ride.

It's July now and the June "buying freeze" is over! I've got a ton of stuff headed my way. The FRONT brakes will be better when the new 16mm master arrives from MikesXS and the SS front Russell lines (3) arrive from Evil-Bay. I also have a set of saddle bag supports coming that should keep the soft bags out of the rear wheel on our way to XSSE.

Respectfully,
Kurt

[3Phase]

Valves clearances too tight?

Kurt,

First off, nice work with the MMO and the test ride!

I think you should measure the clearances again, don't worry about the compression yet. If the numbers and clearances for those original and redneck shims are correct, you went the wrong way with the new shims. Some of the valves are too tight and some valves may not be able to close.

Only #3 and #4 Exhaust have the correct shims but I understand why you left #1 and #2 Exhaust alone because they're close enough to work for a little while with the old shims.

Red is a "redneck" shim:

Old Shim @ mm = New Shim
#1
Ex 290 @ 0.2032 = 285 not 290 original
In 250 @ 0.2286 = 260 not 280 -- low compression

#2
Ex 280 @ 0.2032 = 275 not 280 redneck original
In 270 @ 0.1016 = 265 not 285 -- low compression

#3
Ex 290 @ 0.0762 = 275 correct 275
In 260 @ 0.2032 = 265 not 285 -- low compression

#4
Ex 285 @ 0.1778 = 280 correct 280
In 250 @ 0.2286 = 260 not 275 -- low compression


That's an excellent color diagram that you made!

.

[kboehringer]

Wrong way.... CRUD!

Kurt,
I think you should measure the clearances again, don't worry about the compression yet. If the numbers and clearances for those original and redneck shims are correct, you went the wrong way with the new shims. Some of the valves are too tight and some valves may not be able to close.

TC, Thank you for the input. I THOUGHT I had my formulas correct (based on the manual) to allow MSExcel to do the work for me... I'll double-check the formulas.

On the way home from work I'll get the shims we think I need at the Yamaha Dealer. I have a couple extras in the higher ranges (275 & 285, 290) but none in the 260 & 265 sizes. I ordered a bunch from a supplier mentioned on this board as being good but they still show as not yet shipped after almost two weeks. What I ordered probably would have covered just about any need. I'll pick up a couple 260s and a couple 265s tonight.


I did the MMO again last night after the motor was truly cold. When combined with a little running this may buy me a couple more pounds of compression.

If I screwed this up and the cam lobes are too tight on the valves I may not be getting the full stroke length of the piston in the bore to compress the fuel/air mixture....I'll do the shim check before I worry about checking compression again.

Sincerely,
KURT

[3Phase]

Kurt,

You're doing great! You're not the first person to mix up a shim change and you're not going to be the last!

When I changed the shims on my engine I was like that field mouse in the old Warner Brothers cartoon:
"I don't know, Doc. I...I just keep hearing things."

animecutiepie.deviantart.com



.

[kboehringer]

What a difference a PROPER shim makes......

Kurt,
You're not the first person to mix up a shim change and you're not going to be the last!

3Phase and XS Folks,
Well thanks to 3-Phase' instructions I have the bike running almost PERFECT!



Look at how close that compression is NOW!

I made a slight modification to the recommendations in two locations but otherwise stuck with what I was told. I think there is a chance I can get a little closer to spec on the intakes but they were at all at basically "0" clearance when I started. The bike shop I've been getting the shims at didn't have any 255's and I took all the 260's he had otherwise I could have gotten it a LITTLE closer.

After the change I started 'er up and let it run until it got nice & warm. Checked the timing and it's spot-on. The advance is working properly as well. The idle is absolutely AMAZING..... Sounds and idles like a new bike.

SEMI-FUNNY SIDE NOTE:
I went back to the Yamaha dealer to my new found friend at the parts counter and asked for the shim bucket to get a few more...... I couldn't find any 255's and he says: "No problem, we can get them from Yamaha still". He starts punching the keys on his terminal and realizes that Yamaha wants $23 ea. for a shim. He yells: "Wholly *&&^&" these things are $23 ea?" He's been selling them to me for $2 each. I told him I could get 'em aftermarket for about $4 ea. but I'd have to wait for them. Also, some of these are used and they're really not worth more than $2ea. as the Yamaha manual says that used shims are supposed to be tossed in the trash not re-used. I'm not too sure he bought all of that.

I purchased about 10 more at $2 ea. but I think my $2 shim source may have just dried up



I've made a couple other major improvements today and may post a pic of the newer exhaust and etc. shortly. However, I wanted to get on here fast and thank 3Phase and everyone else for all the help with these shims!!!

Thank you folks,
Sincerely,
Kurt

[3Phase]

You're welcome, Kurt!

Give it one or two thousand miles and check the clearances again. The valves will re-seat after the work you did and the clearances will decrease but for now: GO! RIDE!

And don't forget to fix that centerstand, there's a bolt sticking out of it!

.

[kboehringer]

Took your advice.... HAD A GREAT RIDE!!

GO! RIDE!

Thanks 3Phase.... Took your advice!
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44321
Had a Great Ride.... 90 miles (+/-)

Ugly Duck Update:
Got the MikesXS Master on last night. The brakes are much improved. Received the following in the mail today.....



Based on the style of printing, I think this set is from the 80's Russell no longer makes these and they don't even list them in "old" books. They are unused and brand new so it's not like they're bad or anything. Got 'em on Evil-Bay for $80 (buy it now). Since a single SS XS11 line is going for $60 (+/-) everywhere else I think this was a good buy.

I wonder if Edelbrock (now owns Russell) will honor the Warranty if I mail the card in?

Got some more work to do today!!!!!!

Respectfully,
KURT

[kboehringer]

Front Brakes Feel Great!

XS Folks,
Got the front brake lines installed and the bike stops very nicely!



The old lines were in pretty ugly shape (externally) but I didn't realize how nasty the inside of the fittings were. This bike was past due on replacement. The only thing left to do with the front brakes is install some new dust seals and clips on the caliper pistons. They haven't showed up yet.

Rear brake is fully functional with new pads and I'll likely leave it alone for now to save some $$$. If I see a good deal on a new line for the back I'll get one. Otherwise it's fine for now.....

Next project.... ADD SOME PACKING TO EMGO MUFFLERS!!!! These mufflers are FAR TOO LOUD!

Kurt

[kboehringer]

Cut, Weld, Grind, Weld More, Install, DONE!

XS Folks,

Got some EMGO mufflers the other day and installed them on the XS. I'm not too pleased with the sound but that's addressed in the product evaluation area.

Anyway, I had purchased a set of head pipes in fabulous condition from Andreas. BUT, they were from a STANDARD XS not a special. As a result, the upswept style of the special was clearly missing when the mufflers were installed. Honestly, looked like pooooop. AND, cut down on the ground clearance significantly.



In order to get the upswept style back I had to cut into those beautiful head pipes. I cut about 3/4 through them from the back side and directly under the foot peg mounts to help hide the welding. By cutting only 3/4 through I could bend and manipulate the remainder to get them set in the correct position.

There was a gap of about 3/8 which was filled with donor material from my old set of MAC headers. Welded, ground, welded some more and tested for pin holes. The modified standard head pipes now provide the upsweep needed for a proper XS-Special look.

Although I'm not super pleased with the sound, the EMGO's do look pretty decent and are SLIGHTLY similar to the stock pipes?





Respectfully,
KURT

P.S. FOR 3PHASE - While I was under the bike I hacked my redneck center stand stop mostly off. It hasn't any chance of hitting the frame, ever. The center stand gets stopped by the left muffler now and won't get anywhere near the swing arm.

[3Phase]

P.S. FOR 3PHASE - While I was under the bike I hacked my redneck center stand stop mostly off.

Right on! Someone could poke their eye out or something!


Seriously though, it's not too bad if the centerstand touches the pavement when you're cornering, just sparky and a little spooky because there's no 'give' like a folding footpeg.

It can instantly get bad if it's already sparking and you hit sand, a dip or some ripples.

Don't do that....

.

[TopCatGr58]

I just hope that there's SOMETHING stopping the centerstand beside the muffler! OR you'll end up with some serious DENTS in the bottom side of the muffler after a short while. I thought there was a hard rubber stopper on the contact side of the centerstand where it contacts the muffler to SOFTLY stop the centerstand without denting the muffler, and being RUBBER, it still has a little compression give for when you might hit the centerstand on the ground so that it wouldn't immediately raise the rear wheel off the ground.

T.C.

[kboehringer]

Stoppper is on the OEM exhaust.

I thought there was a hard rubber stopper on the contact side of the centerstand where it contacts the muffler
T.C.

TC,
The "stopper" is on a bracket welded to the bottom of the OEM exhaust. There is nothing on the OEM stand. I already have one minor ding in the EMGO. I'm trying to thing of something (without use of my redneck stopper ) to cushion the blow from the stand.

Kurt

[TopCatGr58]

Well, the centerstand has a nice flat area that is proximal to the muffler, surely you could find a way to secure a rubber stopper...or even a wedge/strip of this used car tire tread that would spread the contact pressure over a larger area...and use the securing bolt placed down in the depth/groove of a tire tread so that there's plenty of tire tread above the head of the bolt/screw to make "gentle" contact with the muffler as the stand slams into the up retracted position?? Redneck enough!?

T.C.

[jwhughes3]

Upswept looks 100% better.

John

[jetmechmarty]

Maybe this will work. I have one similar on mine.


Metal center stand stop bracket 3 5/8"

They have them 3, 4, and 6 inches long. They also have a rubber bumper you can put on it.

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-15.html#products