Time to wake her up...

[motoman]

Motoman,
Thanks for the assembly sequence on the o-rings.

All,
So I did another (#2) teardown, clean and reassembly of the carbs.
I removed everything on the carbs. All parts, o-rings gaskets looked fine.
I soaked the rack in the Yamaha water based carb cleaner for a couple hours. I rotated the carb and squirted cleaner in every hole. Several times.
(Prior to that I had squirted some rattle-can carb cleaner into idle screw hole.)
I rinsed the carbs and then air blasted them. All small parts (jets, tube etc) were cleaned and inspected for clear passages. Even used a magnifying glass.
Float levels to spec. Idle screws set "backed out" 2 full turns from being gently seated.

Put her all back together and still kinda rough on choke and stalls on no choke. Missing and backfiring depending on choke setting and throttle positioning. Runs great at higher RPM (4K)

I am at a loss and need guidance.

Could there still be an electrical gremlin somewhere?

presume you've already pulled the left side ignition cover and tugged on every inch of each pick-up coil wire?.......if not, should be done.
Also, whatever the battery voltage is with key on should be the same at the ignition coil plug-ins, key on. If voltages are lower, removal of the right handle bar controls and cleaning of the internal parts of the kill switch and internal parts of the ignition switch will help bring those voltages back up, specially at the lower rpm ranges where charging voltages will be lower than normal,(mostly due to neglected electrical connections/plug-ins). Once that's all known good and correct, then go to carbs and actually set idle mixtures while idling, sync......re-set mixes again re-sync as I dont recall you saying you had done that when you re-installed the carbs?

[ekim]

Why am I tugging on the pick-up coil wire?
Seems like a counter-productive activity.

I do have a current/voltage drop.
I am getting 11.3v at the coils. (New battery and charged)
Will start checking at the fuse connections (again) and then ignition/kill/other switches.

I have not done any synching or mixture adjustments - and those will be a learning process.

... fingers crossed ...

[BA80]

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543

[MaximPhil]

Why am I tugging on the pick-up coil wire?
Seems like a counter-productive activity.

I do have a current/voltage drop.
I am getting 11.3v at the coils. (New battery and charged)
Will start checking at the fuse connections (again) and then ignition/kill/other switches.

I have not done any synching or mixture adjustments - and those will be a learning process.

... fingers crossed ...

Hi ekim,
Because broken pick up coil wires are frequently where the Carburretors have electrical problems
Switches are a likely source of voltage drop but also check/ clean the grounds another frequent leak of the magic smoke (aka voltage)
Phil

[ekim]

So the latest update on activities...

Spent time looking for magic smoke:
- detailed cleaning of both the battery/frame ground and the frame/engine ground.
- disassembled and cleaned ignition switch (emory cloth on contacts/deoxit)
- peeked into manual kill switch but it looked pristine. (I guess I will go deeper in the contact cleaning)
- tugged on vacuum advance/pick-up coil wiring while running - did not affect running.

Battery voltage is 12.5 ish and now voltage to coils/fuses/etc is now 11.8

So I have "found" .5v of smoke

The bike still runs about the same - easy start-up on choke but will not idle when choke is off. Minor stuttering while running.

Other news...
Front brake master cylinder and calipers have been rebuilt. New stainless lines will be installed and bled tomorrow.

What are the recommended next steps to improve idle/running?

[donebysunday]

I went back through the posts and did not see that you flushed the tank, sure sounds familiar to a problem I had that turned out to be bad fuel solidified in the bottom of the tank and slowly being released by the new fuel.

[ekim]

An interesting concept but I don't think it is applicable.
- I have been starting/running the bike with a small external lawnmower gas tank for the last week. I also installed in-line filters during the first carb rebuild.

I did say that I had drained the tank, rinsed it with fresh gas and added new fuel treated with B12 (Berrymans). If I should rinse/clean the tank - what should I use?

[Prisoner6]

Spent time looking for magic smoke:
- detailed cleaning of both the battery/frame ground and the frame/engine ground.
- disassembled and cleaned ignition switch (emory cloth on contacts/deoxit)
- peeked into manual kill switch but it looked pristine. (I guess I will go deeper in the contact cleaning)
- tugged on vacuum advance/pick-up coil wiring while running - did not affect running.

Battery voltage is 12.5 ish and now voltage to coils/fuses/etc is now 11.8

So I have "found" .5v of smoke

The bike still runs about the same - easy start-up on choke but will not idle when choke is off. Minor stuttering while running.

Hi, "ekim" -

OK .... you've cleaned both the battery/frame and frame/engine grounds, checked the pick-up coil wires, and disassembled/cleaned the ignition switch ...

And from an earlier post, I see you've also cleaned those connectors directly behind the fuse block panel ...

Have you checked the wiring harness ground(s)? It connects to one of the bolts that hold the Regulator/Rectifier down (under the fuel tank).

Also, you should completely disassemble that kill switch, and clean all the internal parts ...

It sounds like you could still be having an "electrical" carb issue ...

[donebysunday]

An interesting concept but I don't think it is applicable.
- I have been starting/running the bike with a small external lawnmower gas tank for the last week. I also installed in-line filters during the first carb rebuild.

I did say that I had drained the tank, rinsed it with fresh gas and added new fuel treated with B12 (Berrymans). If I should rinse/clean the tank - what should I use?

If you do have old solidified fuel in the bottom of the tank it will likely be dark orange/blood red in color, (used a dental mirror and LED light with flex shaft to see) showing mostly along the seams at the bottom. Filters won't help as this old fuel dissolves it passes right through and goes into the bowls. This is where running the lawn mower tank could fool you as the crappy old fuel is in the lines and filters, the bowls too and slowly gets picked up and run through the carb/s causing the same symptoms.
Berrymans is fine but what I used was Chevron Techron not Chevron with Techron (weaker) and let the tank sit for a month, longer than needed I'm sure. I had a spare tank so I could. In the mean time I changed out all fuel lines/filters and cleaned the carbs for the 5th or 8th time so when I put the known to be clean extra tank on I would be running clean. Solved my issues !
Just trying to give you all the possibilities. Good Luck ! Don'e

[ekim]

DoneBySunday, re:Fuel and tank...

To avoid the potential of dirty tank and contamination is the reason I swapped in the lawnmower tank before the second carb rebuild. Sounds like a perplexing problem until you nailed it down

Electrical...

So I have cleaned the ground connections at the regulator.
I disassembled the kill switch and cleaned it (damn ball bearing)

I am still seeing a .5 volt loss from the battery to the red wire on the ignition switch.
I am heading down to pick up some evapo-rust to dip/soak/clean the electrical components of the ignition and kill switches. Maybe I missed something.

Any other ideas on where to find the smoke?

[BA80]

.5v isn't unusual with key on engine off. Mine drops even more than that because the headlight relay is bypassed and the light comes on with the key. Everything that comes on when you turn the ignition switch on is going to cause a drop no matter what you do. That's just the nature of the beast.

Start the engine and check the voltage with it running about 2 - 2.5K

[BA80]

On another note, I found that the stock main fuse holder offered some resistance and eliminating it by rerouting the main through one of TC's spade type replacement boxes helped A LOT.

[crazy steve]

As for the front master cylinder...
I looked at it and give it a slight forceful twist. I can see how it could be coerced apart but I don't want to risk creating another project.
I did several cycles of cleaning with fluid/water/air and got it clean. Yes, the splooge hole is open...

If you find any solidified 'stuff' in either master cylinder, you really need to remove the reservoir. Yes, it's hard to get off and back on, but an amazing amount of crap can hide under it and all it takes is a tiny bit to cause problems and require another disassembly of the brake system.

[ekim]

regroup

Hey All,

I have been cleaning and such all the connections, switches etc per everyone's advice. Thanks to you all as it has made a difference.

I need re-direction in getting this thing running more smoothly.
The current theory is that this is an electrical problem.

As of this moment the status-quo is:
Battery (across terminals) is 13+ v (new and trickle charged after all the test startings).
Voltage (key on, not running) at the primary coil connections under the tank are 12v
The bike starts on full choke, when warmed can be dropped to 1/2 choke.
It stutters some and misses, backfire through the unused petcock lines (lawnmower tank).
Will die if choke is removed.
After carb re-assembly the only adjustments made were float levels and mixture screws set to 2.5 turns out.

I need a 'road map' to follow to determine if it is indeed an electrical issue or the carbs.

All the advice and random forum reading is causing me confusion on troubleshooting next steps.

TIA

- ekiM

[TopCatGr58]

Hey ekiM,

Your last post has be a little confused about how you have it plumbed?

You said it backfired thru the "unused petcock lines/lawnmower tank"???

I'm thinking you're saying that you have the 2nd set of petcock fuel lines...2 for each petcock...but you only have 1 connected to the lawnmower. The other line should just another fuel line, so you should NOT be able to get any backfire back up thru it!? There is only 1 petcock/Octopus vacuum line that would be connected to one of the intake manifold ports, and that would be the only line a backfire/burp should be able to flow back thru.

The OTHER set of lines that would go to the UPPER T's of the carbs are the bowl vent hoses....they are to be connected to an airbox nipple, but if no airbox, then they would be vented to air...NOT CAPPED. With a backfire/burp, AIR pressure could blow back thru it/them.

SO...either a good description of what you have..an octy or not, and where the hoses are routed, and to what T's they are connected to...the LOWER T's, or my mistake to the upper T's???

T.C.