Won't shift into third when cold????

[motoman]

Nice lookin' bike sittin' with the shiney side up!. Good to hear all the tranny work had positive results.

[Radioguylogs]

Shifter STILL Sticky

Since the last post, I've rode 500 miles and mostly the bike works flawlessly... except the shifter is still a bit sticky. During normal riding, as I go up through the gears, the shift lever comes back into position in time for the next shift because there is vibration from the engine RPM. Sometimes it pops back immediately, and sometimes I fell it tap my foot 1/4 second after the shift.

When riding in the city at 25-30 MPH, it gets outright stuck- usually in the UP position, and I have to tap it back to go to the next gear.

I was painstaking about matching the dots and the lines while setting up the shifter linkage. I'm sure I did those things correctly. The new spring is definitely installed correctly.

I am wondering if anyone would imagine that the funky washer/pins on the shift drum could be bent,.....of any other possible cause for the sticky shifter.

It's not a bad job to go back inside the shifter cover. I am thinking I can get this fixed before the SE rally in September, but I can't imagine what would cause this problem.

I didn't find anything similar by searching the previous posts.

Thoughts anyone?

[bikerphil]

There is a return/centering torsion spring on the shifter lever shaft, it may be either broken or weak? JAT

[Radioguylogs]

I don't know for sure, but I don't think so

Thanks for chiming in Phil.

I replaced the spring with a new one (pictures in earlier post), and carefully installed it correctly; having practice by now.

[bikerphil]

After thinking about this, only other things I can think of is the shift drum is not hitting the detent consistently, might be weak/worn/broken detent ball spring. I've had one that shifted similar to what you describe and it was the dremel job on the gears was done sloppily (my fault) . Too much aggressive dove tail. Shift fork wear/bent can cause bad shifts. The next trans gears I ground down I took my time and it shifts like new. GL

[Radioguylogs]

Listening....

Phil:

Thanks for your input. I am stuck and appreciate your thoughts. I know I’m going to take off the cover and I probably won’t find anything I didn’t see before.

I was not familiar with a ball and spring detent, so I studied the Yamaha and Clymer’s manuals after I read your thoughts.

What I found was there were two parts I have never seen because I have never split the cases:
(1) It appears there is a Guide Pin on one side of the case.
(2) I can see there is a Retainer/Washer/Bolt on the other side that must hold a shift drum bearing in place.

It’s hard to see what these parts look like in the pictures inside the manuals.

I didn’t see a spring/ball that you described. Yet there is something else in Figure 101 in the Clymer’s manual that looks like a ball/spring.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could explain briefly if the Guide Pin is related to the detent, and if there is a separate detent, where to look.

Meanwhile, I am thinking if I pulled the cover, and rotated the rear wheel as I shifted gears, I might notice if the shift ‘pawl’ lands on the shift drum ‘teeth’ correctly without any jiggling. That would tell whether your detent suggestion is related to the problem?

[bikerphil]

The detent mechanism would be 13,14,15,16 on the parts diagram. It may be accessable thru the oil pan. That plate with the detents can become loose also (#11).

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...ORK/parts.html

[Radioguylogs]

Still thinking

Phil:

Partzilla was not accessible last night by any of the approaches I tried (your link, my favorites, and Goggle); but no problem since I could get the same diagram on another dealer's website.

The orientation of those parts in the diagram suggests they load from the top of the shift drum. Do you really think they would be accessible from the oil pan?

I know my next move is to remove the shifter cover again, even though I've been in there twice before, and try watching the linkage again while going through the gears.

One thing I remembered that might be a clue. I replaced the restoring spring on the shift lever with a new one from the dealer because it was bent. The new spring was bent the same way when I removed it for the transmission first-gear fix over the holidays last winter.I bent the new spring back, actually a little exaggerated, and put it back in.

Here is the virgin new spring before I put it in the first time, next to the old spring:




So, whether I do this now or next winter probably depends on whether I have to remove the exhaust. I already have a new shift cover gasket in hand.

[bikerphil]

IDK if that detent is accessible without splitting the cases, I will check for you tomorrow with a split motor I have in the garage. I'm sure you know that the torsion spring you have in the pic must be spread apart so it can go over that dowel before installation, correct? Either one of those you have there should work fine, the new one is better but the old one looks useable.

[Radioguylogs]

IDK if that detent is accessible without splitting the cases, I will check for you tomorrow with a split motor I have in the garage. I'm sure you know that the torsion spring you have in the pic must be spread apart so it can go over that dowel before installation, correct? Either one of those you have there should work fine, the new one is better but the old one looks useable.

Don't work too hard on that detent if it isn't easy. I should take another look inside the cover before you spend too much effort.

Yeah I know the spring spreads over the post for installation- I just thought more torsion force might provide a little edge to make the problem go away- but it didn't.

[bikerphil]

Mike, that detent can be accessed from the bottom thru the oil pan. There is no need to remove the bolt that holds it in at the top. The spring and the detent fall to the bottom when the shift drum is moved outward towards the left side of the bike. It is a bit tricky to get it back in this way, I used a piece of metal bent at the end to an L shape to compress it and slide the shift drum back into position. I wouldn't recommend removing this unless there is clearly something wrong with it.

[Radioguylogs]

Phil:

What a guy- it's quite helpful to know what you found. From your description, I can imagine it clearly.

I spent last night looking at the pictures in the manuals, the exploded parts diagrams , and pictures of the parts on eBay. I can visualize everything clearly.

The shift drum has never been removed on this bike, and the only rust I have seen inside the engine was the clutch plates., so it was would be very strange to find the detent not working at 15k miles. On the other hand, this is a strange problem.

I still want to take off the shift cover and play with it. Among other things, I would be able to see if the drum goes into detent reliably. It looks like need to remove the exhaust to get the shift cover to clear the shift shaft. So, I think I will ride it as-is for now, and work on this problem in the winter.

[Radioguylogs]

Problem Finally Solved

I never did solve the sticky shifter on my SF...until now (3 years later).

The shift lever would stick in the up position after an upshift.

I feared the problem might be with the shift drum and forks, but last year I bought shift linkage parts for $20 on eBay, and the cover gasket, thinking I should try replacing those parts first because they are much lower hanging fruit.

This summer the stickiness got worse to the point it interfered with the spirited rides. When I went to shift from second to third, it frequently didn't
shift until I tapped the shift lever with my foot. Finally I became motivated to dig out those parts and give it a try.

When I removed the shift linkage cover, I found the problem easily. After 3 years and 5,000 miles, there was a witness mark on the shift lever shaft indicating it was bent:



I didn't bother replacing the other parts. I was able to take it for a ride today and finally it shifts all the time without sticking.

YEAH! This has been the most troublesome problem among my bikes. It's so much more fun to ride it being able to shift up and down effortlessly.

I think the only reason it took so long to fix is because I kept buying more project bikes that stole my attention.

[bikerphil]

Mike, I'm glad you figured it out and it was something that didn't require digging in too deep.

[madmax-im]

Hi Mike...Dang re read the entire thread before i realized it was 4 yrs old..glad you fixed it ..finally..it is a stunning bike and my envy meter is pegged...
FWIW back in 2008 or 09 I had help getting into my 1st-2nd gear slippage..It was the dogs and slots..but rather than do the dremel repair I was able to purchase 1-3 and 2-4 gearsets new from Yamaha(since they have stopped making) That was on my '82 Maxim 1100 with 15k miles on it...I wound up giving the used gearsets to Tod. I have always heard from others including Tod that the hardened metal on the gears was not all the way through the metal but hardened on its surface only and softer underneath...Not sure if thats true but it seems to be from what I recall...