Won't shift into third when cold????

[motoman]

I really hoping to get this kind of help.

TC: Your description of the slipping clutch vs. the first gear dogs give me the confidence to know what I need to do next. Thanks, I hate to choose that road without some measure of reassurance.

Why do I even try to shift so low @ 3.5k? OK perhaps you have good question there, but it seems unnecessarily hard on the engine to wind it out while I'm loafing through a neighborhood or situations like that. If I want get out onto the main road, I normally would wind it up to at least to 5k. If the bike won't shift into 3rd, I don't want to pull out onto the main road. Perhaps I should learn to loaf at higher RPM.

Greg: You might be able to put me on the right track about the third gear cold shifting problem.

I think the bike was probably parked due to the broken wire in the IGN pick-up coil. Then, perhaps sometime later, some kids tried to start it and the corroded fuse block melted. Then they cut a bunch of wires, and took off the all electrical modules. Don't how they imagined to solve their problem like that.

When the bike is shifting correctly, I have noticed the shift lever is slightly reluctant to bounce back down after some shifts. I had the shifter cover off to polish it, and I fussed with it and matched the dots to what I thought was the most tweaked position it could be. Perhaps my 'tweaking" need tweaking?

I'm gonna try pushing down slightly before the cold 3rd shift and report back.

Interesting thought that the PO might have learned to hold up the lever. The problem happens in first gear. I don't see how the PO could stay in first gear by holding the lever up. It would go to 2nd gear?

Anyway, I am bummed I have to dig into the tranny at 15k miles, but I'll look at it as an opportunity for growth, right?

Did you do the alignment procedure with tranny shifted into SECOND gear?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Mike,

Sorry, brain fart...I meant to say holding the lever DOWN for 1st, or Up for 2nd and other gears. Motoman brings up another good point, there are alignment notches on the shift drum and the shift pawl that are supposed to be in line with each other when the bike is in 2nd gear, and if not, then you can make an adjustment in the lower right corner of the shift lever mechanism that will repostion the pawl to center it with the drum alignment notch. The other thing is that you said you had the cover off, often the shift lever will come off when you pull the cover, and possibly also the spring. It's kinda funny looking how it's supposed to be positioned....there are some photos in the tech tips for the shift lever alignment procedure tip that shows how the spring is to be positioned. When it off the ends are crossed, but you have to spread them apart to fit them on both sides of the pin in the case which puts the spring into tension to have it apply leverage to the shift lever to return it after it's actuated, either up or down.

Fortunately you can just gently accel in 1st, and then shift up into 2nd before getting on the throttle more to avoid the skipping affect, but be aware that if 1st has gotten worn this early..probably due to the PO rough/quick power shifting and such, 2nd gear may not be far behind and you may eventually experience the skipping in 2nd as well. The tech tip stresses while in there to back cut both sets 1st and 4th as well as 2nd and 5th to save you a trip back in too soon. 3rd surprisingly was undercut by the factory OEM....it rarely develops the skip, but we have one member that reported having to go into his 3 times...the 2nd was because he didn't do both sets the first time, and the 3rd time was for 3rd!

T.C.

Ps, Greg...with the extra info he provided of having taken OFF the shift cover and possibly got the spring out of position....I can then see how he could have a problem with the lever not returning DOWN after an upshift, but I still think it's very rare vs. the failure to return UP after a downshift.

[Radioguylogs]

I clearly remember messing with the shift pawl spring and making sure I THOUGHT it was in correctly. I had a good picture I the manual and some text reminding me to that correctly.

However, I don't remember if I had it in second gear or not. It was awhile ago (last Christmas). So I just now looked at the directions in the Clymer's manual that I followed. I would think I put it is second gear because the manual says to do it. I do remember tweaking that off-center screw to get the lines to match up. One thing that was strange...I think I remember that I had to move the gear one tooth to make the dots closer to each other than they were before.

I'll check this issue again when I tear it down an make sure it's all correct. Based on the remarks I hearing, it seems likely the third gear problem would probably be in this area.

...and yes, I was already thinking ahead to what other gears should be done while in there this winter. I will post pictures when I get there. Without any advice, I was imagining that I would Dremel #1 and move the washer for #2. After hearing the advice, I guess will be doing the others.

I really have to read the tech tips and study the manuals a lot more to visualize the dogs for all the gears.

Your advice is invaluable.

[motoman]

I clearly remember messing with the shift pawl spring and making sure I THOUGHT it was in correctly. I had a good picture I the manual and some text reminding me to that correctly.

However, I don't remember if I had it in second gear or not. It was awhile ago (last Christmas). So I just now looked at the directions in the Clymer's manual that I followed. I would think I put it is second gear because the manual says to do it. I do remember tweaking that off-center screw to get the lines to match up. One thing that was strange...I think I remember that I had to move the gear one tooth to make the dots closer to each other than they were before.

I'll check this issue again when I tear it down an make sure it's all correct. Based on the remarks I hearing, it seems likely the third gear problem would probably be in this area.

...and yes, I was already thinking ahead to what other gears should be done while in there this winter. I will post pictures when I get there. Without any advice, I was imagining that I would Dremel #1 and move the washer for #2. After hearing the advice, I guess will be doing the others.

I really have to read the tech tips and study the manuals a lot more to visualize the dogs for all the gears.

Your advice is invaluable.

I think rotating that assembly and not just lining up the slashes is part of your demise....that should NOT have been done .

[Radioguylogs]

I most likely put it into second gear., but I don't remember for sure, but I was following the manual.

I do remember moving the gear one tooth and fooling with the spring to get it in correctly.

I lined up the "slashes" afterward.

I might have done something wrong, but it's not obvious yet, unless I'm missing something.

[Radioguylogs]

I've been out of town, but when I got back, I went for a ride and confirmed Greg's thinking about my third gear problem.

The reason the bike doesn't want to shift into third is because the shift lever doesn't fully return to the detent position. After second gear, I can push down on the lever a little, then it will shift up into third anytime.

It's so simple, I'm embarrassed I didn't figure it out.

Soooooo, either I didn't put the spring back in correctly, or I need a stronger spring! I think the spring is weak.

Regarding the first gear slipping.....Like TC alluded, if I don't do WOT in first gear, it's OK to ride until this winter.

[DiverRay]

The dots line up in FOURTH gear, and the lines on the pawl line up in SECOND gear, per the Yamaha manual. If you lined up the dots in second, that would account for your problems. Just my $0.02, as I am just now putting an engine back together after the gear fix.

[James England]

The dots line up in FOURTH gear, and the lines on the pawl line up in SECOND gear, per the Yamaha manual. If you lined up the dots in second, that would account for your problems. Just my $0.02, as I am just now putting an engine back together after the gear fix.

The dots are always lined up, surely? Regardless of what gear the bike is in. I've never selected any particular gear when replacing the quadrant...you just line up the dots and that's it. After each gearchange the quadrant assembly returns to base and hey presto the dots line up. They can't not line up if the quadrant is installed correctly.

Yes, re the pawl line...the gear should be second gear for that.

[motoman]

The dots are always lined up, surely? Regardless of what gear the bike is in. I've never selected any particular gear when replacing the quadrant...you just line up the dots and that's it. After each gearchange the quadrant assembly returns to base and hey presto the dots line up. They can't not line up if the quadrant is installed correctly.

Yes, re the pawl line...the gear should be second gear for that.

Thinkin' he got confused since being in the middle of a secong gear fix.......which is fourth gear engaged before lower shaft assembly removal/install.

[Radioguylogs]

Found it! (I hope)

Hey- thought I would report what appears to the conclusion for "Won't go into third gear when cold".

I am disassembling for the first gear Dremel fix.

I found the shift pawl spring was in fact installed correctly, and everything was adjusted correctly, but take a look the shift pawl spring compared to the new one I bought:



Hopefully this was the cause of the problem.

I was wondering how the spring could be so deformed. It doesn't seem plausible that it became that much weaker by normal means. Makes me wonder if someone has been in there. On the other hand, the PO(s) were so ham-fisted that it would be more obvious if they had been in there...

Anyway, I always appreciate seeing the conclusion to other people's problems so I can learn from them.

[bikerphil]

Those springs both look ok although the second one weaker. The ends need to be spread apart first and then positioned over the dowel as you know.

[Radioguylogs]

Those springs both look ok although the second one weaker. The ends need to be spread apart first and then positioned over the dowel.

It was on the dowel correctly, but you can imagine the new spring on the left would have greater restoring force to push the pawl back to detent.

Think I'm gonna find more trouble when I see the shift forks?

[bikerphil]

I don't know if replacing that spring will solve your problem, the purpose of that spring is to bring the lever back to center so it is ready for the next up/down shift, it really has nothing to do with gear engagement. I hope I'm wrong and it does fix your issue.

[Radioguylogs]

Phil:

Ahhhh. Perhaps it was confusing this thread mixes my two problems:

(1) Won't shift into third gear when cold.

(2) First gear slips.

The cause of (1) seems to be that the gear shift lever didn't return to detent after the upshift to 2nd gear. Same problem going up into the higher gears. Other members helped me to figure out I could tap the shift lever down with my foot to get it to work. We all speculated about the cause at that time.

[donebysunday]

This may or may not hit home ? When starting out after the bike has sat for some time, over night ? ,,,,,,,,,,, Warm it in neutral then shut it down, put it in gear, grab the front brake lever, pull the clutch lever and start it in gear.
Takes a lot of trauma out of dropping it in gear with a sticking clutch. May save your 1st or 2nd depending on what gear you like to start out in ?