Won't shift into third when cold????

[Radioguylogs]

Here's the gears

I hate putting my latest update here because the title of the original post doesn't fit anymore....but it seems to keep the site cleaner if keep our stories in one place.

So, I found the root cause for not going into 3rd gear (see picture in #25 above).

Now I have the transmission gears out. Here's what 1st/4th gears look like:










Not as bad as I expected. However, the shift fork looks like it took a severe beating:




So, I have a new 1st gear, new 2nd gear, and a new 5th gear.

I'm going to shop for a better 1-4 shift fork.

I heard TRBIG's spirited advice on keeping the new first gear without grinding- and just squaring the old 4th gear. I hear the argument for not disturbing the hardening.

On the other hand, I hear the other mainstream camp promoting the undercut shape to both 1st and 4th gears. Makes sense.

It's a tough choice for me.

[donebysunday]

Not as bad as I expected. However, the shift fork looks like it took a severe beating:




So, I have a new 1st gear, new 2nd gear, and a new 5th gear.

I'm going to shop for a better 1-4 shift fork.

I heard TRBIG's spirited advice on keeping the new first gear without grinding- and just squaring the old 4th gear. I hear the argument for not disturbing the hardening.

On the other hand, I hear the other mainstream camp promoting the undercut shape to both 1st and 4th gears. Makes sense.

It's a tough choice for me.

I understand it's tough to decide but you have new gears (how'd ya do that ?) move the washer get a good fork and go !

I've always been a proponent of not chunking it into 1st on cold start up !
Start in neutral, run till warmed (engine running off choke at it's lowest rpm), turn it off with key (kill switch is for emergencies, delicate) put it in 1st gear (roll for and aft if needed to get it into gear) grab the front brake, pull the clutch, hit the starter. Your in 1st, the stuck clutch is now free, have a great ride !

[Radioguylogs]

I understand it's tough to decide but you have new gears (how'd ya do that ?) move the washer get a good fork and go !

I've always been a proponent of not chunking it into 1st on cold start up !
Start in neutral, run till warmed (engine running off choke at it's lowest rpm), turn it off with key (kill switch is for emergencies, delicate) put it in 1st gear (roll for and aft if needed to get it into gear) grab the front brake, pull the clutch, hit the starter. Your in 1st, the stuck clutch is now free, have a great ride !

First and 2nd gear are still available from the dealer for $100/ea. The bikes are my only remaining vice, so I can rationalize the cost easily. 2nd gear is a luckier find. I was watch e-Bay one day when it wandered by with a Buy-it-now price ~$100. I didn't hesitate for a second.

But alas....no new 4th gear. I took it to a machine shop today to have it ground accurately. Will keep it square (not undercut) to keep the new 1st gear pristine and symmetrical.

Finding the machine shop was not so easy. I called several places. When I found what seemed to be good choice, I still wasn't sure until I walked in the door and saw 4 nice, partially disassembled motorcycles just inside the door. Then I felt better that I would be taken care of. Should be done on Tuesday.

I also read your previous post about the soft shift into first gear, and I had it in mind as I imagined my future with the newly shaped 4th gear. I'll certainly continue to keep it mind as a way to make it last longer.

Thanks for the feedback

[DiverRay]

Check your new gears! Yamaha started to undercut them in the mid 80's on all the replacement gears. They used the same gears in the V-Max and Venture V4 engine, and 2nd started to fail VERY QUICKLY with the V4. The new one I bought a few years ago WAS slightly undercut, and as such would last the life of a NEW engine.

[Radioguylogs]

Double-checked

Check your new gears! Yamaha started to undercut them in the mid 80's on all the replacement gears. They used the same gears in the V-Max and Venture V4 engine, and 2nd started to fail VERY QUICKLY with the V4. The new one I bought a few years ago WAS slightly undercut, and as such would last the life of a NEW engine.

I checked again and there is no taper on my new parts.

[donebysunday]

You said you were going to have the old surfaces that new dogs match up with resurfaced/shaped. Move the washer and go ! I know it's a bunch to soak in but IMHO it's that easy with the parts you have now !
Should be good for at least 50K of relatively hard use ?

Go ahead shoot me !

[Radioguylogs]

You said you were going to have the old surfaces that new dogs match up with resurfaced/shaped. Move the washer and go ! I know it's a bunch to soak in but IMHO it's that easy with the parts you have now !
Should be good for at least 50K of relatively hard use ?

Go ahead shoot me !

Just to be clear:

The only 'old' surfaces I have are the 4th gear dogs.

Since they are rounded, and since I have new 1st gear with non-tapered surfaces, I'll only square off the 4th gear dogs.

Are you thinking that is not necessary? Seems like the best thing to do.

Then...as you suggested ...move the washer and hopefully ride like crazy for 50k miles!

[DiverRay]

I WOULD square the 4th gear dogs, and THEN ride like crazy. With the new 1st gear that should be all you need to do, IMHO.

[Radioguylogs]

I WOULD square the 4th gear dogs, and THEN ride like crazy. With the new 1st gear that should be all you need to do, IMHO.

Your input is appreciated.

[Radioguylogs]

Happiness is a Square Dog

Machined 4th gear:



Together with a new 1st gear:



That's a Merry Christmas for me (I hope).

I think I might put a very small chamfer on the 4th gear dogs to discourage chipping. They are like a knife edge.

[BA80]

I think I might put a very small chamfer on the 4th gear dogs to discourage chipping. They are like a knife edge.

NO!

It won't chip, it'll chamfer itself quick enough.

[Radioguylogs]

Ok

NO!

It won't chip, it'll chamfer itself quick enough.

OK. Advice well taken.

I's like to see pictures from the members showing what a dremeled/machined gear looks like after 10-20k miles. I am very curious.

PS- Fellow at the machine shop thinks the gears are hardened homogeneously throughout the material, not only on the surface. He says 40-45 Rockwell hardness is expected. Previous discussions on CH11 focused on depth of hardness. Has anyone ever measured the surface vs. the inside?

[donebysunday]

I know very not scientific.
I used a small pencil sized auto punch on the unfinished part of the dog and the re-surfaced side, tried it a number of times, no visible difference to the depth of the punch. Not what I expected, either the temper is only on the surface of the contact face or the entire gear is really not that hard ? If I remember right I also tried it on the non contact area of the teeth with same result.

OK. Advice well taken.

I's like to see pictures from the members showing what a dremeled/machined gear looks like after 10-20k miles. I am very curious.

PS- Fellow at the machine shop thinks the gears are hardened homogeneously throughout the material, not only on the surface. He says 40-45 Rockwell hardness is expected. Previous discussions on CH11 focused on depth of hardness. Has anyone ever measured the surface vs. the inside?

[bikerphil]

Gears I have ground in the past have all lasted over 50K miles, mostly city riding, YMMV. That professionally ground one looks great BTW.

[Radioguylogs]

2nd gear after?

I'm encouraged by the info from Don'e and Phil.

Question: Does second gear shift feel any different after the washer swap?