'80 XS11 LG "No Spark"

[geneborg]

I have the subject bike and have not started it recently. No problems in the past but I now have "no spark". That is no spark on all four cylinders. It spins and turns over fine and there is gas to the carbs. I am using a jumper to boost the battery, checked fuses, disconnected the tip over switch, checked some connections, have not checked the coils (but it is all four) and I am suspect of the TCI. It seems, logically, that something is affecting all four cylinders. What would be in common with all four to result in no spark? The normal spark is not that exciting and not easy to see but I am checking in a relatively dark garage.
gene in FL

[skids]

Ballast resister shorting out? Actually getting continuity across the ignition fuse? Kill switch? Neutral indicator switch shorting out near shifter pedal? I am shooting in the dark here.

[CaptonZap]

Poke a safety pin through the middle of the red/wht wire at the TCI and see if you are getting 12.5+volts with the ignition on. That powers the TCI.
Here is a wiring diagram.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/...1ae5cbd4_o.gif
If you do have voltage there, poke the pin through the orange or grey wire, and measure voltage to ground while you crank the starter. It should vary, if you are using a digital meter. If you are using an analog meter, the needle should bounce. That indicates that the TCI is breaking the current flow through the coils, and they should spark.
Make sure that the red/wht wire from the resister (under the gas tank) is plugged into the two way connecter that has the wires that are connected to the coils.
Don't throw your TCI away if it does prove to be bad. I have an "old folks home" for them, and will be happy to take it in.

CZ

[natemoen]

Poke a safety pin through the middle of the red/wht wire at the TCI and see if you are getting 12.5+volts with the ignition on. That powers the TCI.
Here is a wiring diagram.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/...1ae5cbd4_o.gif
If you do have voltage there, poke the pin through the orange or grey wire, and measure voltage to ground while you crank the starter. It should vary, if you are using a digital meter. If you are using an analog meter, the needle should bounce. That indicates that the TCI is breaking the current flow through the coils, and they should spark.
Make sure that the red/wht wire from the resister (under the gas tank) is plugged into the two way connecter that has the wires that are connected to the coils.
Don't throw your TCI away if it does prove to be bad. I have an "old folks home" for them, and will be happy to take it in.

CZ

How about instead of poking holes in the insulation we use the holes that are provided in the connectors at each end. No sense putting holes in the insulation and letting water in.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Gene,

Good info so far, but what type of fuses....the OEM glass ones?? If so, you need to take them out and test them, they can look good and be bad! If the newer solid ATCO style fuses...that's good.

Checking the voltage at the TCI with the key on is good, but ALSO while you're cranking...or for that matter, just at the battery. When a battery gets weak, it can still have enough oomph to crank the engine, but can still be weak enough to drop the voltage down just enough to NOT fire the ignition system. I know you said you used a boosting battery, but you probably just put it on the battery posts. When I had a dying battery, I tried the booster just on the battery and it still wouldn't start. I then put the booster onto the Ignition circuit so that I was ensured it had the 12 V's, and just let the weak battery spin the engine, and THEN it fired up! That told me that my battery was getting weak and I needed to think about replacing it.

However, aside from that, now would be a good time to clean up the electrical contacts....the engine to frame ground as well as battery grounds, battery + connections, etc.!

T.C.

[geneborg]

'80 XS11 LG No S[ark

All the suggested help is much appreciated. I am not absolutely sure but it appears that the battery may be bad and also my booster battery pak is also at its end of life. This issue may be, hopefully, as suggested but low voltage to the TCI ie not enough voltage to spark the plugs. I got a spark on #1 just as the battery and booster bit the dust. I went and got a new battery and now need to add acid and bring it to a full charge.
Where does one hook up the booster to the ignition circuit, as suggested?
These XS1100s need at least 12 Volts + to crank the engine and create good spark. I am still old school enough to miss the kick starter. I also have several '79 XS11s that still have the kick starter. It is always to challenge to kick start 1100 cc's but does help with a weak battery.
gene in FL

[LoHo]

I chased a no-spark around a long time because I was sure my pick-up coils were good. They were not. New (actually, old) pick-ups and a proper PU wire repair got me on the road again. Let me know if you want the TCIs I bought because I was sure my PU coils were good.

[TopCatGr58]

All the suggested help is much appreciated. I am not absolutely sure but it appears that the battery may be bad and also my booster battery pak is also at its end of life. This issue may be, hopefully, as suggested but low voltage to the TCI ie not enough voltage to spark the plugs. I got a spark on #1 just as the battery and booster bit the dust. I went and got a new battery and now need to add acid and bring it to a full charge.
Where does one hook up the booster to the ignition circuit, as suggested?
These XS1100s need at least 12 Volts + to crank the engine and create good spark. I am still old school enough to miss the kick starter. I also have several '79 XS11s that still have the kick starter. It is always to challenge to kick start 1100 cc's but does help with a weak battery.
gene in FL

Gene,

At the fuseblock, find the pin for the ignition circuit, and you can then put a jumper wire onto the line, connect the booster battery ground to battery ground, and the + to the jumped ignition circuit wire so it'll make a complete circuit. Yep, a weak battery will drop the line/harness voltage down to the 10.5 V or less range, and we have learned that when it drops that low, the spark disappears!! Good on you for doing the full trickle charge on the new battery to TOP IT OFF/UP to get the max capacity before putting it into service!

T.C.

[geneborg]

'80 XS11 LG No Spark

The new battery was charged to 12.6V and it still would not spark. But I did what TC said and put the booster battery directly into the ignition ckt. I did now get spark. I am now having a very similar problem as discussed in the forum titled "Help with voltage drop on LG", as I am only getting about 11.6 at the TCI and elsewhere in the ckt. It appears that I have some dirty connections? If TC or anyone has anything to add to the corrective suggestions that are mentioned in the forum discussion, let me know. At least it appears that the coils and TCI are OK.
gene in FL

[motoman]

The new battery was charged to 12.6V and it still would not spark. But I did what TC said and put the booster battery directly into the ignition ckt. I did now get spark. I am now having a very similar problem as discussed in the forum titled "Help with voltage drop on LG", as I am only getting about 11.6 at the TCI and elsewhere in the ckt. It appears that I have some dirty connections? If TC or anyone has anything to add to the corrective suggestions that are mentioned in the forum discussion, let me know. At least it appears that the coils and TCI are OK.
gene in FL

Easily start with the five different plugins behind fuse panel....unplug..clean...u know the drill.....then the notorious KILL switch, since it COMPLETES the running circuit. That IS the most common voltage drop area, since directly exposed to the elements .........here visiting in GA. right now, I can definitely see where the moisture and humidity in parts of the country is definitely the killer of electrical connections

[geneborg]

'80 XS11LG No Spark/Due Low Voltage "HELP"

I need some more suggestions. I have done many connection checks, spayed the ignition switch, taken apart the the kill switch, swapped out the ballast and solenoid etc and still have low voltage at the TCI and ignition wire of about 11.5 volts. I did get spark when I jumped the ignition wire with the battery booster but that is the only spark thus far. I am now asking for some further suggestions? I did also read and will reread the recent "low voltage" discussion.
Can I trace the voltage from point to point to look for when the voltage drops? Or if there is any type of bad connection anywhere in the circuit does that then affect the entire circuit? What causes low voltage ie bad connections, bad grounds, pinched wires and what else?
It is still my understanding that unless I have 12+ volts in the ignition circuit and at the TCI I will not get spark?
gene in FL

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Gene,

Yes, all of the above, poor connections, damaged wires, poor ground!
Yes, you can use your voltmeter to check the power at different points along the power circuit. Use the wiring diagram and check the paths. As you stated, you had spark when you jumped the ignition circuit, so the TCI and coils are working. You didn't state whether the 11.6 volts you had were just static, or while trying to start the bike. The voltage drop point/level for the TCI has been found to be about 10.5V but could be higher??

Start at the fuseblock for the ignition circuit, if you already have low voltage there, then you may need to take apart the main ignition switch, not just "SPAY" it ! And then you can test the voltage up to and then downstream from it and see where the voltage drops. You're loosing the magic smoke somewhere!

T.C.

[le_bucheron]

I have a xj and my no spark story was from side stand switch relay... Hope they help you!

[geneborg]

'80 XS11LG No Spark/Due Low Voltage "HELP"

In trying to narrow down the low voltage causes I disconnected the Ignition Switch and put a jumper between the brown and red wires. I then got 12+ volts on several brown wire connections down from the switch. But in order to get 12+ volts at the ign. circuit at the fuse area and also at the TCI I had to also unplug the connection from the Regulator/Rectifier to the Field Coil in the Alternator. This per the wiring diagram for a '80 XS11G vrs my bike which is a '80 XS11LG. These readings were all done "static".
When I switched back to using the actual Ign. Switch I was back to the voltage loss showing at about 11.4 volts. So it appears the the Ign. Switch has to come off and taken apart. I am not sure of the significance of the issue with having to unplug the Field Coil??? I have a spare Regulator/Rectifier from a '79 XS11F. It looks a bit different but the wires are the same. I have yet to try switching them out and wanted to get some comments prior to making a switch. What does the Reg/Rectifier and its connection to the Field Coil do? The other Reg/Rectifier connection goes to the Stator Coil in the Alternator.
Again, what do they do and is this normal?
gene

[TopCatGr58]

Hey again Gene,

I'm no electrical guru, they may be enjoying their holiday??? Looks like you may have found most of the missing "smoke". Yes, the main ignition switch can be taken apart, the contacts all cleaned, then dielectric grease applied to prevent further future corrosion.

The Field Coil is energized when the key is turned on, this way once the engine starts the ALT can start generating electrical power almost immediately, and this power is what switches the headlights on. SO..the power loss to the field coil is necessary, but if the battery is really strong it shouldn't cause that much of a voltage drop.

T.C.