I am stumped

[79XS11F]

sure it's not carb related Rob, the carbs you have now, came right off my SF that morning and it has never had a miss, ever. Same carbs, same jetting, same fuel levels, and while I never get mine up to 10k, if anything was a miss in the top end, you'd have known it within that 20 second interval while you were running and crapping at the same time!

I would agree Mack but... if it was not carb related, why would the miss that returned within 24 hours of when we switched them out not move to cylinder #4 when the plug leads were switched out between #1 and #4? Unless there is something going on inside the coil itself or within the plug lead that is corrected by the direction that the lead is twisted the miss should have went to #4 when I switched them.
The issue is of course that it makes no sense. It does not appear to be carbs and it does not appear to be electrical???? I am going on the idea that with no fuel filters on the carbs we switched out, perhaps something went from the fuel tank into the carbs and plugged some tiny opening but cleaning has not been helpful.
Are you still anticipating being in Ottawa on the 30th?
Rob

[mack]

Yes

I'll be there on the 30th, not sure what time I can break away from moving my daughter in, but I'll have my cell phone so I can call you in advance.
Just saying that the odds of both sets of carbs having the same fault is astonomical, unless the issue is in your petcocks.
I put your carbs through three 50 minute utrasonic cycles, spraying cleaner and compressed air through all passages in between cycles. They are the definition of spotless. I did find some stuff wrong with them but nothing that would have altered their performance.
Checked for leaks and set all the fuel levels for you. I put the idle mixure screws back to what you had them set at before, then bench sync'd them, so they will be bolt on ready with a minor sync and you should be good to go.
Do you have a midi vac?

[79XS11F]

I'll be there on the 30th, not sure what time I can break away from moving my daughter in, but I'll have my cell phone so I can call you in advance.
Just saying that the odds of both sets of carbs having the same fault is astonomical, unless the issue is in your petcocks.
I put your carbs through three 50 minute utrasonic cycles, spraying cleaner and compressed air through all passages in between cycles. They are the definition of spotless. I did find some stuff wrong with them but nothing that would have altered their performance.
Checked for leaks and set all the fuel levels for you. I put the idle mixure screws back to what you had them set at before, then bench sync'd them, so they will be bolt on ready with a minor sync and you should be good to go.
Do you have a midi vac?

That's perfect Mack. I don't have a midi vac but I do have a set of sync gages. I will try to hind time to run the basic electrical tests before you arrive.
Rob

[79XS11F]

Coil Test Results

I just carried out the resistance tests of the coils and this is what I got using a digital multi meter:

With the meter set to 200 ohms (the lowest setting on the dial) the primary results are:
Coil 1/4 – 2.3 ohms
Coil 2/3 – 2.3 ohms

With the meter set to 20K ohms the secondary results with the plug caps off are:
Coil 1/4 – 15.07 K ohms
Coil 2/3 – 17.34 K ohms

So it looks like both coils are out to lunch on the Primary test even if both results are the same and 2/3 is out on the secondary test.
I guess I should just get new coils so what would you recommend I use?

Rob

[79XS11F]

Rob,

With your last posts about getting fire on only 1 of the each plug of a coil pair, and this quoted info in your first post....but you didn't say what you original coils were? Also, someone posted about the ballast resistor, your bike OEM had one, but I thought you had some high power coils ie. Dyna, but not sure if you had used the 1.5 ohm style with the ballast resistor, or 3.0 type and removed the B.R.? But you then stated you had swapped the Accel coils onto the bike. Again, not knowing if they were 3 ohm type, or 1.5 ohm, but I'm thinking that you are running the B.R with 1.5 ohm Dyna coils, but when you swapped in the Accel...they were 3.0 ohm type, and so WITH the B.R. in place, the coils were getting LOW VOLTAGE, and so were only able to generate enough spark energy to fire 1 plug of the 2 plug coil set...which is the rare incidence where folks can have a no spark or 2 cold cylinders that are not normally electrically paired....ie. 1 and 2 or 3 and 4 , and the problem is STILL electrical and not carb. That's my theory, hope you enjoyed the ride, and look forward to your REVEAL!

T.C.

These Accel Coils I have are 3 ohm. I will put them on the bike again. So, with these 3 ohm coils I want to remove the Balast resister?
Rob

[dbeardslee]

I'm lovin' my new Dyna DC1-1's. They're 3ohms, 30Kv, and in the states you can get a set for $130. Dunno what they cost in Canada.

[dbeardslee]

These Accel Coils I have are 3 ohm. I will put them on the bike again. So, with these 3 ohm coils I want to remove the Balast resister?
Rob

Yes. Remove the resistor and plug the wires into themselves.

[79XS11F]

Okay, so I have the 3 ohm accel coils in place with all wiring connections good and tight including the plug leads at the coils and the plugs. Ballast resister is bypassed. The miss is still there but not as frequent. She is running smoother now. Mack will be by tomorrow with my cleaned and set up carbs and I hope that once they are on the bike the miss will be gone. I'm wondering if I should go grab another fresh set of plugs for her. CTC is right beside the liquor store
Rob

[79XS11F]

I'm lovin' my new Dyna DC1-1's. They're 3ohms, 30Kv, and in the states you can get a set for $130. Dunno what they cost in Canada.

Are these from parts and more by chance?
Rob

[motoman]

The gas that came out of the carbs was translucent green. Like mountain dew soft drink color. I never seen this before but in any case the carbs were fully disassembled and cleaned by hand as well as in an ultra sonic cleaner. Than all passages were blown out with compressed air. All galleries were free flowing. I'm going to clean them again along with a full tune up but I still think I'm over looking something else. Something simple.
I will run a compression test as part of the tune up.
The bike has been stored in a heated garage so it has not be exposed to damp conditions.
Keep the ideas coming. I really want this sorted out so I can catch the end of our short biking season.
Rob

Thats what happens to fuel when it sets for s long time..........least mine did sitting in tank for s year.........then running with a constant miss.

[dbeardslee]

Are these from parts and more by chance?
Rob

I got 'em from Z1 Enterprises. The ones I'm seeing at Parts N More look identical to the green Mikes XS coils - which is what I replaced with the Dyna's on Betsy.

[dbeardslee]

I found some Dyna DC1-1's in Canada at a place called Canada's Motorcycles (devilish clever, those Canooks ). They're calling them 35Kv, but Dyna says they're 30Kv-35Kv, which probably depends on the input voltage. $192.17 Canadian with free shipping, which is like $145.53 U.S. Canadian Dyna DC1-1

[79XS11F]

The Update

So I installed the carbs this afternoon and nothing. The engine wouldn't even fire up. Dialed up the idle and got her to start but she would jump right to 6 to 7 K. Numerous attempts to sort that out failed and then I noticed that the butterflies were not retuning to their natural position.
I've taken the carbs off the bike and taken them off the rack and it looks like #2 carb, the carb the runs the whole show, has a sticky butterfly valve. It is intermittent. It appears to fail to return to fully natural position about 1/2 the time. I shot some good old WD40 into the shafts and that freed things up a little but it still fails to close perhaps 3 to 10 times. When it fails to close it will be open at least 3/32".
So, if this issue is intermittent I must wonder if this has been the issue all along. I don't really want to take the butterflies apart so the question is ... what can I spray into that shaft to free it up ONCE AND FOR ALL? All the other ones work perfectly and snap shut instantly when let go.
Rob

[jetmechmarty]

... what can I spray into that shaft to free it up ONCE AND FOR ALL?
Rob

I think you're looking for a miracle you aren't likely to get, at least not "ONCE AND FOR ALL".

[dbeardslee]

When I clean carbs I use quite a bit of carb cleaner on the linkages, screws and springs, and I also hit 'em with penetrating oil. I use a penetrating oil called Free All, and I try to keep it off rubber parts, but I basically hit all the external parts - springs, linkages, and screws get a good dose. I wipe and blow off the excess, but I try to leave a thin coat for lubrication. From the parts diagrams it looks like there's a seal inside on the ends of the linkage, but Free All has not caused any problems for me.