Cheapest price fork brace???

[fredintoon]

Hey james, I'm on the website you mentioned and this is in it

"You steer from left to right and you thoroughly enjoy yourself. Next, a straight stretch of road. Ahead of you a lorry comes into view."

Good thing we dont have those in USA...whatever it is

Hi Sparky,
I am US/English bilingual.
A lorry is a truck.
An artic is a semi.
A roundabout is a traffic circle.
And in the UK getting knocked up means being awakened early to go to work (or even to go fishing)
Even the traffic light sequence is different.

[James England]

Totally agree Tom. If you want the handling of a new bike, buy a new bike.

That's a daft attitude, if you don't mind my saying. There is nothing at all wrong with making something better than when it left a factory and it is absolutely possible, feasible and easy to accomplish on many things, including old bikes and the XS1100. Nobody has said they want the handling of a new bike..that's what you said.... It's about improving the handling of an older machine, not trying to make it handle like a new one (which not everyone can afford to buy anyway).


The reason such things are not fitted as standard is cost and profitability from the manufacturer's point of view. Many bikes benefit from fork braces and dampers, even when new. They have perfectly set up suspension to start with, Tom. In fact, when I bought a brand-new XS1100 in 1979, I soon bought a micron fork brace for it. Because the fork tubes are thin, waggle and the fender fork brace is too weak. No amount of correct "setting up" will compensate for that...and, on the European XS what do we have? 3 front spring settings and 5 rear is it? not much scope for "setting up" there,....

[James England]

Hi Sparky,
I am US/English bilingual.
A lorry is a truck.
An artic is a semi.
A roundabout is a traffic circle.
And in the UK getting knocked up means being awakened early to go to work (or even to go fishing)
Even the traffic light sequence is different.

And a "rubber" is an eraser

[CaptonZap]

And a "rubber" is an eraser

What's a Pommie?

CZ

[IanDMacDonald]

Very coincidental that you brought this subject up CZ! My gf and I debated that term yesterday. From what I remember in my travels across the pond, it refers to pomegranates, as-in the English looking round and red getting off the ships as immigrants. Some believe it stems from the acronym "POHM" (Prisoners of Her Majesty), of the English prisoners sent to Australia. I believe that was debunked.

[b.walker5]

This is just a personal opinion, and doesnt have to matter to anyone but me, but I cant help wondering sometimes if those (no one in particular) spending vast amounts of time, and sometimes money, 'improving' these bikes have actually 'improved' them.

If i'm restoring a classic, than that's exactly what i'm doing, Restoring it. Not trying to turn into something it never was, or was never meant to be.

Not just on this forum, but on many forums, some of the benefits of these 'improvements' appear to be based on little more than 'seat of the pants' anecdotal evidence, with very little in the way of hard engineering level evidence to back it up. Sometimes it appears that its more psychological than anything else. "I've spent the money, I've spent the time, It feels (or sounds) different, so it must be an improvement". Call me a mad skeptic, or whatever your want, but sorry, I just don't buy into it. And i certainly dont agree that 'improvements' or 'enhancements' are left out at factory level due to cost. No manufacturer wants to sabotage his own sales by deliberately cutting corners. (unless he's a chinese counterfeiter perhaps).

[b.walker5]

What's a Pommie?

CZ

Bit 'below the belt' but this from the Urban Dictionay.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pommies&defid=578838

[TomB]

No amount of correct "setting up" will compensate for that...and, on the European XS what do we have? 3 front spring settings and 5 rear is it? not much scope for "setting up" there,....

I disagree, I managed it with the original XS11 forks, theres more to set-up than preloading fork springs, as already mentioned theres accurately lining up the forks to start with, another I found made the front end feel really "loose" was having paint inside the bottom tree fork tube holes, no matter how tight you did the bottom tree clamps, how many here have painted the bottom tree and left a thin layer of paint inside the tube holes. And lastly I ended up mixing my own fork oils to get the viscosity just right and tried different oil levels.

I've never said don't use a fork brace, I used one, merely that for normal riding decent set-up suspension is as good.

And as I've said, if you see how thick the aluminium of the fork is at the point you're clamping the brace on, a whole lot of you would be put off, I was. Someone mentioned the braces that bolt on the mudguard mount holes, much better from an engineers point of view.

[Orange4]

And i certainly dont agree that 'improvements' or 'enhancements' are left out at factory level due to cost. No manufacturer wants to sabotage his own sales by deliberately cutting corners. (unless he's a chinese counterfeiter perhaps).

To some extent you are right that MFG's don't deliberately create inferior bikes but they do have to create bikes that make a profit so there are limitations for engineers to work with. They do their best within those limitations. But that does not mean there isn't room for improvement. That's just silly. If that were true race vehicles would be driven stock.

Even racers with the benefit of engineering teams use the seat of their pants plus data and observation but seat of the pants is still one valid tool of many to determine the results of modifications to handling. Plus, we are all a bunch of asses anyway, what else would we use to judge our tinkering?

[crazy steve]

...And I certainly don't agree that 'improvements' or 'enhancements' are left out at factory level due to cost. No manufacturer wants to sabotage his own sales by deliberately cutting corners. (unless he's a chinese counterfeiter perhaps).

It's done all the time.... For an example, just look at what Yamaha did between the standards and the specials. The specials had adjustable rear shock damping and air-adjustable forks from the beginning, the standards never did get the rear shocks and got the air forks later. I wouldn't call it 'cutting corners', more like making certain models more attractive. Yamaha touted the special as having 'better' brakes/suspension compared to the cheaper standard (although the brakes are questionable...).

All of these bikes are built to compete in the marketplace, and cost has a huge effect on the final product.

With that said, I'll somewhat agree that many mods really don't deliver their supposed gains or are really all that cost-effective. Home-brewed mods in particular are very hard to quantify, generally being more of a perception thing rather than a real improvement. But in terms of suspension mods, it needs to be remembered that Yamaha sold these with a 'one-size-fits-all' suspension with fairly limited adjustment. There's definitely room for 'fine tuning' to suit an individuals size/weight/riding style if you fall outside the 'average' that was used for the factory tune. These bikes do have somewhat flimsy forks, but they were typical of what you found on all of them 'in the day'.

[b.walker5]

That's my whole point. Seat of the pants feel is subjective. What you may think is an improvement, others may not, and the lack of hard data evidence either way makes it impossible to prove either way. Then it just becomes anecdotal.
Just because it feels/sounds/looks different only makes it different, not necessarily better.

And what is done for racing is largely irrelevant when it comes to a discussion about improving handling for everyday use. Racing has only one goal, and that is to win. Rider comfort has nothing to with that equation. Changes to our bikes is, or at least should be, about rideability and comfort, and that means different things to different people. It's all about personal choice.

Case in point could be the changes James has made to his 1300. Not knocking his choices, because they're HIS choices. I have the same bike. He likes his exhausts, so do I. He likes his headlight setup, I find I hideous. Doesn't mean its bad, or good, it just doesn't suit me, and I don't find it an improvement.

[jetmechmarty]

But in terms of suspension mods, it needs to be remembered that Yamaha sold these with a 'one-size-fits-all' suspension with fairly limited adjustment. There's definitely room for 'fine tuning' to suit an individuals size/weight/riding style if you fall outside the 'average' that was used for the factory tune. These bikes do have somewhat flimsy forks, but they were typical of what you found on all of them 'in the day'.

This is where the rubber meets the road. I spent some time and money on my SG and I believe it's better than when new. The XS1100 suspension leaves a lot of room for improvement, and it's easily improved. The aftermarket has been very helpful in this regard. We even have options!

[b.walker5]

This is where the rubber meets the road. I spent some time and money on my SG and I believe it's better than when new. The XS1100 suspension leaves a lot of room for improvement, and it's easily improved. The aftermarket has been very helpful in this regard. We even have options!

Should read 'easily Changed'. Whether or not its 'improved' is down to the individual rider, and how he, or she feels about it.

[jetmechmarty]

Should read 'easily Changed'. Whether or not its 'improved' is down to the individual rider, and how he, or she feels about it.

In my case, I can assure you, it's improved. Even if you didn't approve of my alterations, the original stuff was pretty well used up.

[b.walker5]

It's got nothing to do with anybody 'approving', its about personal choice. My personal choice was my belief that a fork brace didn't 'improve' my bike to my taste. I didn't need anyone's approval to fit it, nor did I need anyone's approval to remove it.

In my view the brace didn't improve the overall riding comfort of my bike, in fact in my view, it made it worse, so I took it off. So, to say that a fork brace improves the handling of the bike, is subjective, and much like beauty, is very much in the eye of the beholder.