2nd gear curiosity

[Rasputin]

Hi Rasputin; Interesting post.

I haven't heard anything that sounds like a grind when this happens though. That video has grinding that sounds really obvious & with this, it just quickly skips and stays in gear.

So now I have a few more questions:

Is this the "best" info on doing the 2nd gear fix? http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5090

Also regarding moving the "washer", can this be done without splitting the case? I see the photo of what's to be moved here, at the bottom of the post http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ght=dremel+fix

Also, rather than do a dremel fix, AND if I don't have to split the case to do it, would it be better just to buy a new 2nd gear and move the washer as well? Personally I'd rather just get a new gear in there.

If yes, where would I best find this gear today?

Thank ye!

The grinding or what I describe as more of a machine gun sound is what you can expect if your second gear gets as bad as mine was.
The thread you mention is the best to follow that I am aware of although many have chimed in since with tips and support. I used that thread for mine and it went very well.
The washer will move when you pull the countershaft and such to dremel the gears just a matter of moving it one side to the other.
If it can be found the new gear will be very expensive. There are some NOS places that may have them but that will be a lot of work and expense to find. There are a few around who may still have it. I have found older and harder to find parts before but it is not always easy.
Good luck with your bike and fix that issue sooner than later as all it does is ruin your riding time when you could be honking on that mother.

[Rasputin]

A couple of the sites I have visited looking for this part show a superceeded number. Any one have any info on that possibility? 5JJ1725100
Damn I typed in one wrong number but the question still stands. I have contacted a possible supplier but he wont get back to me until at least tomorrow. Last I saw listed was $195 for that part though.

[BA80]

1st gear wheel and 4th gear wheel appear to still be available...

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...cle/parts.html

[Rasputin]

Just wondering how much if any differences there may be between an 79 and an 82 XJ. Maybe a widened search will help/

[BA80]

I believe 78 - 82 are all the same.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Gary,

The "other" problem you have is that you need to replace 2 gears, because 2nd engages with 5th, so the dogs on 5th and the slots on 2nd are the faulty parts, and so you need to replace both along with doing the washer swap to properly cure the skipping problem. AND as I stated in the tip, if 2nd is skipping, 1st isn't far behind, and so it would be best to perform the dremel fix on both pairs to prevent a 2nd, or even a 3rd trip back into the tranny. Some bikes 2nd goes first, others 1st goes first, mine was 1st and a month later 2nd.

And has been recently stated, NEW gears are very expensive now IF you can find them, most found that they would be spending more on the gears than what they paid for their whole bike!

The XJ grab bar was a straight metal tips, and the actual grab bar section was a strong vinyl section that I unbolted and removed so as not to damage it. The XJ's bars are much stronger than the earlier model XS's. One fellow posted about just laying the bike on it's side, so that he wasn't on his back under the bike, and he didn't have to do the more heavier hoisting to get it all the way on it's back....YMMV, but like Greg said, folks have found that it being on it's back is the EASIEST for manipulating the gears, parts, etc.!

T.C.

[KA1J]

Hi TC,

Dang, nothing is ever easy... Can both sets of gears be removed without splitting the engine? I'm concerned about dremeling inside the engine.

Dogs... I've read "dogs" many times but am not sure what they are. Are those the protuberances on the side of the gears that fit into the holes in the mating gear? I still don't yet have a clear mental image of how the gears engage. I've always assumed there was a single drive gear and a mating gear with the mating gears being a different sizes & incrementally getting larger as the gear number increased, but obviously I was wrong.

So when I look at a parts blow-up of the transmission for instance here: http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemp...e/transmission I see the main axle with gears called pinion and the drive axle with gears called wheel. Am I correct in assuming the protuberances on the 5th wheel gear fit into the holes in the 2nd gear beside it when engaged?

And likewise with the protuberances on wheel gear 4 fitting into the slots on wheel gear 1?

So I'm guessing we are talking about dremeling on the drive axle. Do we need to also dremel on the main axle? & if so, does the main axle slide out as well as the drive axle?

Never had to consider this till now. I'm in for an education I see...

Thanks!

Looking at the

[TopCatGr58]

Hey again,

Your post #14 in this thread, you had the link to the Dremel fix tech tip that I put together, did you actually look through it?? Yes, it explains the dogs and slots of the gears, and they are on the DRIVE axle, otherwise known as the COUNTERSHAFT, and these gears are the only ones that we have found needing to be ground, not the ones on the MAIN axle. So the Dremeling is done on the countershaft gears and NOT on the main axle/shaft gears, nor IN the engine case. Please take a look at the tip, it'll explain alot of the process for you.

T.C.

[KA1J]

Thanks TC,

I had looked at it but I wasn't sure if that was the go-to tutorial people had mentioned so I didn't glean over it so much up till now.

I'm sure all the info I need to know is there but doing it without knowing the parts by name & just looking at the pictures I'm a bit confused. I learn better I guess by video where I can see all the motions & hear the step by step explanation but that's a whole lot of work to do something like that.

I see that you remove the 5th gear through the hole in the side but I'm still trying to visualize the process of how to remove the entire countershaft to get to the 1st & 4th gears. I'll get it, it'll just take time.

On my XJ650 Maxim & the Maxim-X the shift is really smooth and just clicks in place for each gear. On the XJ11 each time I shift its a much more assertive sound & with a moment of settling in place. Not like grind of a bad syncro in a car tranny but hard clicks. Would that relate to the 1st & 2nd gear problem?

It'll be a good project for this winter if I can get help flipping the bike.

[TopCatGr58]

Gary,

I'll give credit where credit is due, Fredintoon is the one that quoted that our bikes shift like a russian tractor! The gears are square cut....in that the dogs and slots are perpendicular, and are also spinning, and so especially in the lower gears, 1st and 2nd, you get/hear/feel that definitive CLUNK when shifting into gears both from sitting still/neutral, as well as just across neutral into 2nd. I've got a copy of an old XS11 commercial which shows the rider starting the bike, and then clunkily shifting it into 1st before taking off! I just search YouTube, and couldn't find it, I've got it on my harddrive on my desktop, I may have to see about re-uploading it....IF Youtube will let me, because of the copyright of the Yamaha and XS11 brand???

If you look thru the Links FORUM, not the LINKs link from the main page, a member posted a nice video showing what the bike's innards look like when the cases are split. You don't have to split them to perform the dremel, but you might be able to get some appreciation of how things look from that vid.

Several years ago we bounced around the idea of trying to put together a HOW TO video for our bike with the common tasks, cleaning, synching carbs, etc., but just didn't happen. Now with the advent and popularity of Utube, it might be easier and better to just create these clips and upload them there for folks to access vs. having to burn and mail out DVD(s)!

T.C.

[KA1J]

I'm thinking I should make this a winter project and get the gears out and done first and reassemble in the spring. If someone who knows tranny work already and is doing this 2nd & 1st gear fix soon, maybe they can take a video of the process. It would for instance probably help me get the idea how to get all the gears & clips/washers out of there properly & then know better how to replace everything so it fits in properly afterward. A video that compliments TC's pictorial & details would be a great help.

Maybe there's something tricky about getting the gears on the countershaft out that a video would make clear, I still don't see how you get the other gears out once the 5th gear is slid out, the others are too big. Perhaps once the 5th gear comes out, the countershaft can be pulled toward the hole and all of them come out like a shish kebab out with just a pull to the hole & then up & out . Maybe the forks have some quirk to perform in reassembly to make sure all is well. A video would help those like me who only know what I do from forum advice. I'd like this 2nd & 1st gear fix to last for many years to come.

The idea of re-hardening the gears came up. I wouldn't mind letting a machinist do the cutting but I'm not sure who can re-harden the gears after the shell has been worn down & then dremeled into the pulp of the gear. Hardening ought to make the new dog & slot bevels as hard as new.

Bottom line is I know I can do it if I know how to reassemble properly. My fear is to miss an important step & then have a bigger tranny problem when I go to use it.

[bikerphil]

Maybe there's something tricky about getting the gears on the countershaft out that a video would make clear, I still don't see how you get the other gears out once the 5th gear is slid out, the others are too big.

The whole countershaft comes out of the engine thru the bottom and the gears are removed from the countershaft on the work bench. Fifth gear does have to come out the side first though.

[BA80]

Bottom line is I know I can do it if I know how to reassemble properly. My fear is to miss an important step & then have a bigger tranny problem when I go to use it.

It's really not as complicated as it might seem. Print out the exploded view from the parts fiche and that will help with knowing you have it together right.

If you use a flexible piece of wire, like a piece of clothes hanger, in place of the shift fork rod it gives you some wiggle room when reassembling.

Patience, lots and lots of patience. You'll be ready to give up because it won't go back together then it will just fall into place and you will have no idea how you did it.

[kenbradlee]

'81 XS11 Special 2nd gear

This one is now starting to have problems going into 2nd gear when downshifting. It will go from 3rd to neutral & will not downshift to 1st. Have to shift to 2nd and then I can downshift to 1st. I won't be able to fix myself and would like some advice as to what is the problem. Want to have some sort of idea about what to expect when I can find someone to repair. Can anyone help?

[DGXSER]

Hey kenbradlee.

This does not sound like the typical dremmel repair issue. I would sugest you start by draining the oil and pulling the shift fork cover on the left side. Is is kind of rectangular shaped, the shift lever attaches at the bottom right corner as you look at the cover. You will want to remove the shift lever, then pull the cover. What is inside is the shift pawl set up that operates the shift drum.



You will want to check that when your in second gear, the shift pawl dots line up as they do in this picture, red arrows. You will also want to look at the line on the shift arm by the shift drum, and the line on the shift drum, to see that they also align. Green arrows, not aligned as the transmission is in fourth in the picture. Third thing to look at is that all of the pins in the end of the shift drum that the star looking plate covers are there and that the star plate is not bent.