Fuel Injection

[JustJeff]

One is the loneliest number

Not so huge. one Mikuni HSR45 Flatslide.

211 Horse Power. Some minor turbo lag but it responds well.

I would prefer one throttle body injector, just for ease of tuning.

[yamahansolo]

ok in my latest motorcycle mag i forgot the name??? i'll have to go dig it out...
any way they have the new fi triumph in there. all they did was take stock kehin carb bodies take the slides out and mount fuel injector through the top. still using the butterfly for the flow of air. this is really a fancy tbi setup. i had this on my camaro and beleive me when you swap the stock one out for the holley 670 cfm unit it makes a huge difference. the had gobs of low end torq with these. no time to discuss the mods but i had about everything you could do short of nitrous and a turbo.
you can use winaldl or tunercat. to hook up the stock ecu to a computer and it reads the sensors and you drive for a while and let the program record the info and then you get a prom burner and burn a chip according to your specs. there is all kinds of info on it on line. you could theoretically get the map sensor from an xj11 and the ecu from a gm tbi 4 cylinder. figure out your fuel requirements take the top off a set of carb bodies and mount the injectors in there with a fuel rail. the tbi's typically ran about 10-14 psi fuel pressure or so. can't remember for sure. but it should be pretty straight forward!

i have a set of stock mikunis bodies that need some serious overhaul. i may try it if my kehin zrx swap doesn't work well... i just need to order the right jets and i can install it. i even have a push/pull throttle to mate it to. this was off a suzuki bandit 600. but hey it was free...

[Pat Kelly]

I like this idea.....



The machinist that bored my cylinders said he's seen many bike engines with this FI mod. I may discuss it with him in more detail

[yamahansolo]

that looks just like the triumph throttle bodies...

[shutchis]

Fuel Injection

I fuel-injected my 82' XJ1100 using a MegaSquirt controller over three years ago (Oct. 06). I posted my results in the XS11 Modifications forum under Carburators and Fuel Systems.

Here are a few things I've learned: 1) It's not cheap, but it's not real expensive either; adding EFI to your bike will cost about $800. If your carbs are repairable, then this is the probably the better route. 2) However, my EFI motorcycle runs great, starts easy, and is fun to ride. I don't worry about leaky carbs, fuel in the air box or engine, 3) It's been reliable, other than some cold soldering joints I made near the fuse box and inside the Megasquirt 36 pin connector. I've put over 15K miles on the EFI system, it's my daily ride to NASA (25 miles round-trip). I've taken two 1200 mile trips to Oklahoma and to-many-too-count rallies in and around Houston. So it's reliable, 4) I'm getting 38.6 MPG all-town ridding; which is pretty good on Houston's gasohol fuel, which is a poor excuse for gasoline.

The EFI system is an Engine Management System. And this project taught me a LOT about fuel and timing issues.

I'm convinced EFIing engines is the right decision; but it's NOT easy, even the pro's get it wrong; and you must have the ability to tweak the software and fine tune the settings; which means a new skill. The MegaSquirt controller was a excellent start to my education; and I'm about to complete my second bike, an '80 XS11 Midnight Special. What an adventure.

If you have any questions or just want to talk, call or write me a note. Stan H.

[81xsproject]

I like this idea.....



The machinist that bored my cylinders said he's seen many bike engines with this FI mod. I may discuss it with him in more detail

You would have to have some kind of TPS on the butterfly shaft.

[yamahansolo]

my keihins from the zrx has a tps on it already

[Dennyz]

I posted this picture back in '04/'05. It's machine work I did as a prototype for the FI system I was working on for my 'F'. I discontinued the project due to the over all cost of FI'ing an old bike. My carbs work fine at $0.00.

[Bamper]

i saw a dune buggy with a xs1100 in it and it had 1 carb but it was a big 4 barrel, sold for like 3grand i think. also on the uk forum someone started to do the FI back in like 04 but there hasn't been a post on it in a few years.

[hamjam]

he might have a bit of gunK in the throttle body ,
sometimes there is buildup right at the butterfly , carb cleaner or seafoam on a cloth or those really long Qtips often will help to clean it off
Jim 4 years with a FI bike and wouldn't change

My brother bought a new Victory, with fuel injection, about a year ago. A couple months back, he was telling me, that he thought, that it was idling a bit faster than he would like for it to idle. He knew he couldn't adjust it. He told me he took it to the dealer, asked the dealer, how much of a problem to drop the idle down a tad. Dealer told him he couldn't adjust it; would have to pull the injection system, and send it to the factory .

? WHUUUUUUUUUUT!? ?

[Ivan]

There is a guy that does that mod, but just sticks the injector in a piece of flat aluminum that replaces the top cap on the carb, along with the slide and diaphram. He only charges about $800 for a Venture carb setup, so I can imagine our would be equally cheap.

The problem I see with it, is the fuel would just squirt on the side of the venturi, and atomization would be a problem. All the TBI setups that are as engineered, the nozzle squirts parallel to the airflow.

GM TBI had a pressure spec of 9-13 psi, which could almost be done with a mechanical fuel pump, if it could be put on the engine somehow. The newer stuff runs 45 psi and up.

I just can't see messing with the simplicity of the carbs, and taking on such a headache on a bike that runs so well to begin with.

[Larrym]

If I only had a Brain....

Then I would keep my mouth shut and you wouldn't be reading this.

The Black Box Theory:

I have no doubts that FI hardware/software can be used to optimize the fuel delivery for my bike. Economy and Mpg? Sure!! Power and performance??? That as well!! But how this is done makes me a little twitchy:



From what I've read, the above pic is what the insides of the black box/BRAIN of a FI system looks like. Take another look...could you find a defective component like an IC , diode, resistor, or transistor with your eyes alone? That's the problem with "looking" at electronics parts: Your eyes don't tell you much unless the part has catastrophically failed, caught fire, and let the "magic smoke" out.

To fix anything on this board test equipment and the training to use them is needed. Just a thought but I'd suspect that more than a digital Multimeter would be required. Dual trace oscilloscope? Digital signal/pulse generator? Capacitance checker?? Maybe an entire test jig which simulated the inputs/outputs and generated Error codes??? Or does the owner simply throw it away and plug in a new one? Send it back to an "Authorized Service Center" with pre-paid postage both ways???? I honestly don't know....seriously.

If the support from the Mfg is present then with the proper test equipment I would be able to diagnose this baby down to the component level: I've got degrees in Electronics/Computers/Robotics. But I'd like to have that "support" from the Mfg: Full electrical schematic, the "pin out" of each IC, component locations, component item list, theory of operation, block diagram, test points and test procedures. Piece of cake when ya got all that, right? Guaranteed success!

Without the ability to troubleshoot this brain board down to the component level, it becomes a "Black Box" which is treated as a single replaceable component. You know, like the electronic modules which control the ignition on our bikes: TCI. (No support there AFAIK...) I can only test its function and hopefully have a spare "known good" one to swap it out with when a problem arises.

Component Level Testing/Replacement:

The carbs can be diagnosed down to "component" level by using the test equipment built right into my face: eyes, ears, nose. (Yup..the PO broke off the main jet and part of it is still there at the bottom of the float bowl...) It's the same process but with different test equipment and different parts to replace. Difference is that low tech tools and test equipment is used.

For quite a while now, the auto industry has been taking steps to "lock-out" the home mechanic/do-it-yourself by requiring special tools/test equipment. (I was absolutely furious when I found out that I couldn't set my truck's ignition timing: no timing marks at all. It had to be set with a special magnetic pickup!!) Open the hood of a 2009 Camaro and take a look: not much you can do but look. On a 1969 Camaro you can see and do quite a lot. Just saying that no matter how well the newer stuff increases efficiency, mileage, Horsepower, etc., if I am locked out then I'll pass on the deal.

For the record, the guys who have done the FI Mod are really devious. I mean that in a good way. As in every little device which makes our lives easier or better had to be devised by people with minds that thought up the notion and then overcame all the myriad of problems that arose as they tried to implement their vision. I do hold them and what they have accomplished in high regard.

I'd prob'ly buy their FI bikes if they were up for sale and I didn't already have an XS1100.

[mxmikie]

http://rides.webshots.com/album/5758...ey?vhost=rides

[Shappers]

And the same engine in the finished bike



I recognize that FI black box in your post above as that is the same one I used in my bike. I agree 100% that if something fails at the side of the road then you are pretty much left for dead.. Saying that, the circuit is very basic, you build it yourself which gives you an detailed knowledge of the circuit and full schematics are in your hand. I think if anything would fail it would do so quite early on in the development. The 3 LEDs on the board also give a quick visual indication of the main parts of the circuit.

When I started riding the bike I used to carry a small scope in my tank bag (next to the laptop for hooking up to the 'brain') just in case it went poof somewhere down the road but it seems to be ultra reliable so far (touch wood, cross fingers) Let's see if time is kind to the electronics..

Happy New year all..

[Larrym]

Foot in Mouth Disease...

Shappers,

The goal of doing the "black box" theory was to make those of us without fuel injection not feel so bad/primitive. The electronics of the system look to be overbuilt IMHO. If it were some tiny disposable board with surface mount components then it would be another story.

What FI does, according to the posts by you and the others who've shared here on the site, is spectacular: making an XS even more Excessive. That's never a step in the wrong direction.

I guess now there's not a snowball's chance in heck that I could ever convince you or anyone who's done the FI mod that you've ruined your ride and that you should immediately sell it for a greatly reduced price...to me.