Final Drive overheating

[DAVINCI]

Hey, even the FSM has errors....take a look at the torque specs for the swing-arm pivot bolt. And I've got the second printing. EEK.

I recall that there was a discussion about compiling all of the known service manual errors into one sticky.

Might be a good time to do that.

[hamjam]

I have a Haynes and a factory manual. a couple of friends have the Clymers they borrow mine a lot
The Haynes has all the information found in the Factory manual along with some better photos the Clymer ones are inaccurate and hard to use but
ymmv

[Schming]

What...

I'm hoping someone can help me out with an odd problem. I have a 1978 XS1100E -- great shape, bought it used, runs beautifully and I ride it everyday I can here in VT, NH and Quebec. The bike was cared for lovingly by past owners, including an engine overhaul/rebuild (I think) in Arizona two owners back. I've added 20,000 miles or so since I bought it three years ago. I change the oil, lubes, etc regularly.

At the last tire change (I wore out my last set) I tightened the rear axle nut to 108 ft/lbs -- whereas before I had done it to the 76 ft/lbs all the times before (my error -- misread the manual). Now, my final drive is overheating -- I can feel it/smell it. I rode the bike only 15 miles (out and back) and put it up for the winter in my heated workroom. Now I have to solve the overheating before I can ride this year. Any suggestions?

I've checked the drive, it's the correct model for the standard E, not the special. Have I overtightened a crush washer or something that hadn't been done with the 76 ft/lbs tightening? I have not had any other problems, but don't want to just loosen the nut and pretend it didn't get too hot...I ride safe, not sorry.

...did You find to be causing the over heating ?
If You changed the tire yourself are you sure all the rear axle spacers are installed correctly ?

Did You use 80/90wt. gear oil in the final drive when you changed fluids.
Also there is a measured level that it gets filled to which you can print these dipsticks from this link courtesy of member Catatonic Bug:

http://www.ringler.us/xs1100/xs11_dipstick.pdf

[trbig]

These axle nut torques are a load of crap anyway. So you torque it to the proper torque and your castle nut covers the hole where your cotter pin goes. Now whatch'a gonna do? Overtorque it, or loosen it a bit?

I have never in my life put a torque wrench on an axle bolt. I've always used the German torque setting of gootentight.

[Lonerider62]

I checked my Clymer and it does say 108 Lbs for all but the Special, which I find odd. 108 Lbs ft is a hell of a lot of pressure on that axle bolt with the seals and bearings in between. Because of the configuration of the setup, it can't move anyway, the way the rear axle can on a chain or belt drive. I've never had any problem with mine, and I just took it apart for a lube job. Everything was fine and there was no way it had been torqued to 108 lbs and I probably only had about 60-70 when I finished with it. I understand that with the spacers that are built into the axle between the bearings, they should prevent binding, but after re-torqueing to 108 lbs, that distance between the bearings is bound to diminish over time.

[crazy steve]

I checked my Clymer and it does say 108 Lbs for all but the Special, which I find odd. 108 Lbs ft is a hell of a lot of pressure on that axle bolt with the seals and bearings in between...

It's 108 for all of them, the Cylmer Special number is a typo.

One reason for the high torque number is to make the rear axle/swingarm/wheel/FD as rigid as possible. A lower number will allow flex to take place, slightly degrading handling...

[Rasputin]

I used to have a Haynes manual and I thought it was great. I of course knew nothing then about misprints or other issues. It had great pictures and was just the ticket for a young wanna be mechanic. Apparently it served its purpose because my 79 is still running after many years and before I joined this forum. Ya know if I was to look hard enough I may still have that old manual somewhere but I am willing to bet one of my ex's threw it out. Hmmm maybe a look is in order.

[trbig]

Anyone wanting to see a very nice typo.. like a whole wrong page.. go to the PDF XJ manual. Page 91 on the PDF, chapter 5-3. It's for the rear wheel on the XJ. Nice looking sprocket and chain there.. lmao.

[BA80]

That's also a drum brake setup with mechanical linkage.

[gargoyle_house]

Overheating -- what I've done so far...

First, thanks guys for all the great responses and help.

I've now pulled off the wheel, cleaned the rear brake, check fluid levels in the brake (all fine), drained and refilled the final drive, and will remove, clean, and repack the wheel bearings tonight. It's rained and is mud season here in VT -- since I live on a dirt road, I can't take the bike out until Sat or Sunday, but will let you know what happens with the drive when I do.

I plan to torque to 76 ft/lbs this time -- I know that means I've change three major things so I won't completely know what caused the problem. But I can always retorque to 108 if it's working and not overheating....

And there was a full 10 oz. of lube in the drive (it was blackened and smelled bad/burnt). There were some tiny metal shavings on the magnet -- I usually change the final drive lube every 3-5,000 miles, so that surprised me somewhat. Wasn't a lot, but maybe enough to melt down and make the head of a pin or two from them. I use Castrol 90w lube, and just bought some Royal Purple 75W-90 to try in it.

Of course, open to more suggestions when I see what happens -- or save me from myself if you think the 76 ft/lbs is going to ruin my bike and my ride...thanks.

[crazy steve]

...And there was a full 10 oz. of lube in the drive (it was blackened and smelled bad/burnt). There were some tiny metal shavings on the magnet -- I usually change the final drive lube every 3-5,000 miles, so that surprised me somewhat. Wasn't a lot, but maybe enough to melt down and make the head of a pin or two from them. I use Castrol 90w lube, and just bought some Royal Purple 75W-90 to try in it..

The burned lube is not good, particularly if there was enough in there (and 10 oz should be enough). The metal on the drain plug isn't good either. I'd pull the F/D off the swingarm and check the gear lash as per the manual, maybe even pull the ring gear out of the housing to check how smooth the ring and pinion bearings spin. I'd say there's a very good chance one or both of those bearings are failing. If that's the case, you'll need to replace the final drive; you don't want that seizing on you while riding, at anything above much more than 10-15 mph that's a good way to go down.

The axle torque should have nothing to do with this; none of the torque is transferred to the bearings, all of it is taken by solid spacers if they're all in place. There is one spacer that can fall or be knocked out; located in the wheel on the drive side, you should have a small short spacer (part #15 on the parts diagram) protruding from the grease seal on the drive-side wheel bearing. If that's missing and you installed the wheel and ran the bike, the axle torque would be transferred to the ring gear bearing and it has failed. Time for a replacement FD.....

[motoman]

I use Castrol 90w lube, and just bought some Royal Purple 75W-90 to try in it.

That'll work, for cleanin it out better, but the syn. equivelant would be the 75-140w variety. What you got to put in there just doesn't seem to have as good of 'cling' ability or 'load bearing' capability and maybe is part of the reason that newer diffs. in trucks,etc. are commonly tagged with' Syn. 75-140w only' as opposed to the ole' EP(extreme pressure)80-90w gear oil.

[Iron Duke]

Haynes manual

As Nate says I generally prefer Haynes manuals as well but have not seen one for the XS11. That said I use the fsm as my primary reference anyways, so that's a moot point for the most part. The primary use I put the Clymer manual to is for where it describes a process more clearly than the fsm. But most of the time it's been described here even better and without the mistakes.

I have a Haynes Yamaha XS1100 FOURS owners workshop manual
for 1101cc. 1977 to 1980 book #483 use it all the time

[James England]

Re Haynes.... they're all over eBay.co.uk Ironically, they show a US spec bike on the cover!

Re the FD. I would simply replace the complete drive from (preferably) a low mileage bike. You have loads of them over there from what I've seen. I wouldn't mess about trying to fix your old one. If you have visible metal flakes (as opposed to the grey slimey gunge on the drain plug), then something's going/gone on in there. I sold two FD's over here for only $25 each and they were both in great shape. It's an easy job to change the FD over. Just make sure you drain the oil on the replacement FD and refill with new oil......

[natemoen]

well haynes no longer has any for the XS11.