Update on my tail light project...

[ddragon63]

soooo.... The LED's drove me crazy so I put the 1157's back in and went onto my next step of installing my 5 wire to 4 wire converter box. Love this Mod!

All my wiring for the trunk runs down the top of the fender under the seat so I took off the seat and double sided taped the box down to the upper fender under the seat and got to cutting and wiring. Got it all put together and now I have blinker/brake lights in the trunk. Went for a ride Saturday and a buddy following me said it was WAY better.

Just ordered load resistor's to wire into the mix to use the LED's... I figure I'm this far invested in the bulbs I may as well try to use them....

Obviously the load resistor is suppose to help my wont flash problem in turns... and my brake light bad bulb on light due to LED in brake light. I'm also hoping it will remove the flashback thru the LED blinkers caused by my single turn indicator light in the cluster. If not I guess we'll tackle that issue when we get that far.

BTW I WILL NOT post pictures of my 5 to 4 box for fear of the laughter. I'm not an electrician... I'm a butt connector & scotch lock kinda guy

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Don,

The load resistor will defeat the use of the LEDs, increases the amp load so you don't SAVE any power this way. Wish you had posted about this before ordering the resistor!?

Did you get an electronic Flasher to put in place of the OEM unit?

Yes, the single dash light turn indicator does cause the bleed back which causes the other side to flash. You just need to install a couple of diodes on the lines going to the dash light that will prevent the current from going to the other turn circuit.

Glad the trailer switch works. Just get the electronic flasher, and a pair of diodes from radio shack to wire in line, and your LED's should then work just fine for the turns.

T.C.

[ddragon63]

Hey Don,

The load resistor will defeat the use of the LEDs, increases the amp load so you don't SAVE any power this way. Wish you had posted about this before ordering the resistor!?

Did you get an electronic Flasher to put in place of the OEM unit?

Yes, the single dash light turn indicator does cause the bleed back which causes the other side to flash. You just need to install a couple of diodes on the lines going to the dash light that will prevent the current from going to the other turn circuit.

Glad the trailer switch works. Just get the electronic flasher, and a pair of diodes from radio shack to wire in line, and your LED's should then work just fine for the turns.

T.C.

T.C.

Yes I bought the no load electronic flasher to go with the LED's... once I did my trailer switch It wont flash @ all with the LED's no mater what combo I go with. so I had to put the 1157's in. The brake/tail/oil indicator light is on cuz of the LED brake/license plate buld. So it's gonna need a resistor too. The Resistor's only hooks to the blink/brake side of the bulb so the extra amp load should only be while brakes are pulled or blinker on Right?
So I'm still saving power in running light bulb right?

Heres how I look @ it... I'm almost $70 invested into 5 LED bulbs that will not work in anything else I own. So I'm using them even if they're gonna draw the same as an 1157 incandescent when I'm done. I should never had bought the stupid things. I could spend $70 elsewhere.

[Rasputin]

Load resistors and Diodes do different things. I am not electrickery knowledgable enough to explain the difference but one will not do the same as the other. As explained you need Diodes and not load resistors. They are inexpensive and easy to install when you listen to the guys on here who know how. You have not wasted 70 bucks you just did not listen to the end of the story. Get the diode's and install them with these guys guidance and you win!!!

[ddragon63]

Load resistors and Diodes do different things. I am not electrickery knowledgable enough to explain the difference but one will not do the same as the other. As explained you need Diodes and not load resistors. They are inexpensive and easy to install when you listen to the guys on here who know how. You have not wasted 70 bucks you just did not listen to the end of the story. Get the diode's and install them with these guys guidance and you win!!!

I know the difference between diodes and load resistors. I also know where both of them need to be wired.... diode keeps back current from happening, a resistor add resistance into a circuit.

The Diodes get wired inline with each of the 2 wires that go to the turn "indicator" light (warning light) on the gauge cluster. AS the 79 only has 1 indicator light instead of 2 you need to put the diodes in line with the 2 wires that go to the 1 light. This will keep an electrical flash "bleed thru" (back current) from 1 side to the other from the 1 indicator light.

Load resistors add resistance to the High side of the LED turn/brake bulbs to solve hyper flash and or no flash problems caused by the lower power load of the LED bulbs.

After wiring my 5 to 4 wire converter I had no turn signals (with LED's) even with a no load flasher. So i did as advised by TC... I unplugged the flasher cancel unit and the "indicator" cluster and still had no turn signals. Upon Removing the LED's and putting the 1157 bulbs back into the bike I have signals again.

So by my (limited) 12v DC knowledge I need to add resistors to the mix to bring the load back up to equal that of the 1157 incandescent bulbs. I may still need to add Diodes inline with the 2 wires to the 1 indicator bulb in the warning light cluster to stop secondary feedback from 1 turn signal to the other. I will cross that bridge when I get there.

If anyone has a better way to do this I'm all ears. But I'm really not seeing any other way to get the lights to flash without adding resistors.

[Rasputin]

Hey Don,

The load resistor will defeat the use of the LEDs, increases the amp load so you don't SAVE any power this way. Wish you had posted about this before ordering the resistor!?

Did you get an electronic Flasher to put in place of the OEM unit?

Yes, the single dash light turn indicator does cause the bleed back which causes the other side to flash. You just need to install a couple of diodes on the lines going to the dash light that will prevent the current from going to the other turn circuit.

Glad the trailer switch works. Just get the electronic flasher, and a pair of diodes from radio shack to wire in line, and your LED's should then work just fine for the turns.

T.C.

Ok. Just wondering if you read this which is just above your post I responded too?

[ddragon63]

Ok. Just wondering if you read this which is just above your post I responded too?

Yes I did.... that diode wiring TC is referring to is a separate issue from the blinkers working. I've got a few issues

The diodes is for the indicator light in the warning bezel so when I turn the signals on power doesn't bleed thru on the left side when I signal right. and vise versa.

The first step I'm trying to accomplish is getting the singals to flash. then I can get to the diodes if so needed. If I didn't sell welders for a living I'd say I hate electronics right about now.

[Rasputin]

Just mentioning that at least three references to diodes to this and your last LED question have made mention of installing diode's but Not a single mention has been made by you that you have attempted in any way to utilize this info.
If i am wrong I apologize but I just went back thru both threads and you make no mention of having tried the suggestions.

[ddragon63]

Quote for Crazy Steve in a post from earlier in the weekend....

Troubleshooting wiring long-distance can be such a PITA...

First, the LEDs are a high-resistance load; much higher than a incandescent. They're low current (about 1/50 as much), so any lower-resistance points in the circuit (be it a bulb or even a somewhat poor connection) can draw off enough voltage to cause them to not work or work right. Where these points are can make a difference too; if your ground paths aren't the same, that can be the problem. LEDs are even touchier about poor connections compared to regular lamps.

Here's what I'd do; disconnect the indicator light cluster by unplugging it, and also the turn canceller. This reduces the circuit to the turn lights, switch, and flasher. Does everything now work? Also keep in mind that LEDs are polarity-sensitive (unlike incandescents) so make sure your + and - wires are hooked to the correct side of the LED. If the lights now work, the problem is the cluster or canceller. If they still don't work, you'll have to start tracing wires to make sure they go where their supposed to and all connections are good, paying particular attention to the ground wires. Also doublecheck that your flasher will work with a LED load; some 'electronic' flashers need at least a 1 amp load to work, which is more than the LEDs will draw. Once you get them working, then make the mod to the cluster and reconnect it. The canceller you should leave disconnected, as it won't work in any case.

You may have issues with the 'trailer convertor' too. Unless it's marked as being specifically compatible with LED lamps, you may not have enough current load to 'trigger' it's operation. I'd get the turns working right before trying to install this so you're not chasing multiple problems... end quote


this is kinda where I'm 2 right now in my diagnosis..... I unplugged both the canceller and indicator cluster and still have no signals. I'm going to back track and make sure its not a ground issue. Other than that everything works with 1157. only running an brake lights with LED's. If you turn a signal on and you look close you can see a very dull strobe. but no full on "make the flasher click" kind of power seems to be going thru it unless the incandescents are in.

[Rasputin]

Ok you type faster than I do.
Your statement was "I'm also hoping it will remove the flashback thru the LED blinkers caused by my single turn indicator light in the cluster."
If there is no bleed back through the indicator light the signals will flash as they are supposed to. Once the bleed back exists the flasher can not build to what it need to work. Like I say I am not electrically knowledgable but I have read more than a few forums and this is not the first time this has come up. Hey if nothing else, I get to learn from tonights posting eh!

[crazy steve]

The Diodes get wired inline with each of the 2 wires that go to the turn "indicator" light (warning light) on the gauge cluster. AS the 79 only has 1 indicator light instead of 2 you need to put the diodes in line with the 2 wires that go to the 1 light. This will keep an electrical flash "bleed thru" (back current) from 1 side to the other from the 1 indicator light..

That's not quite right.... yes, you need to put a diode on each wire now going to the indicator light, but you also have to rewire the light. The two wires now going to the light have to hook to one side of the lamp, the other side needs to be hooked to ground.

As to the issues with the LEDs and the convertor, I'm not surprised. These usually work by sensing current and the LEDs probably aren't enough load to trigger it. But you may not need the '1157-size' load resistors (which are roughly 6 ohms each) either; you might be able to use a larger-value resistor (smaller load and less power consumption) and still have enough to trigger the convertor. Try something in the 10-20 ohm range, maybe even a 30 ohm and try it. These are cheap in lower wattage sizes, once you find the largest size that works switch to a 50 watt rated resistor so it won't burn up.

[ddragon63]

Ok you type faster than I do.
Your statement was "I'm also hoping it will remove the flashback thru the LED blinkers caused by my single turn indicator light in the cluster."
If there is no bleed back through the indicator light the signals will flash as they are supposed to. Once the bleed back exists the flasher can not build to what it need to work. Like I say I am not electrically knowledgable but I have read more than a few forums and this is not the first time this has come up. Hey if nothing else, I get to learn from tonights posting eh!

Ya I've never had this much trouble with bulbs. I've done HID's and LED's in several other bikes and some cars and all worked. Only problem I've ever encountered was "hyper flash" which at this point wouldn't exist due to the electric flasher. I would think if it was a bleed back issue only once I unplugged the indicator cluster it would have gone away.
Think I'm gonna take it apart and just go step by step and make sure I didn't forget something or somethings just crossed. Unplug the cluster and canceller do up the diodes and see what happens. If I have to wire the load resistors (which I really don't wanna do) I'll have em here to do.

Sorry about the fast typing..... I spend all day with a smart phone and/or computer in front of me.

[ddragon63]

That's not quite right.... yes, you need to put a diode on each wire now going to the indicator light, but you also have to rewire the light. The two wires now going to the light have to hook to one side of the lamp, the other side needs to be hooked to ground.

As to the issues with the LEDs and the convertor, I'm not surprised. These usually work by sensing current and the LEDs probably aren't enough load to trigger it. But you may not need the '1157-size' load resistors (which are roughly 6 ohms each) either; you might be able to use a larger-value resistor (smaller load and less power consumption) and still have enough to trigger the convertor. Try something in the 10-20 ohm range, maybe even a 30 ohm and try it. These are cheap in lower wattage sizes, once you find the largest size that works switch to a 50 watt rated resistor so it won't burn up.

Ya I caught that re-reading you older post on the ground thing. Ya I had all the lights working (except feedback issue) before the box conversion. from our previous conversations I knew that the "trailer box" may make the LED's mad and it did. But I do like the Mod... The Resistors Superbrightled.com recommend are 6ohm 50w jobbies....

Question thou Steve is since they're only going inline with the High side of the bulb which is temporary "brakes, blinkers" I'd still theoretically be saving power over the incandescent because the LED low side "running lights" is going to draw alot less power than the standard?!

Or am I trying to kick water uphill again

[crazy steve]

..The Resistors Superbrightled.com recommend are 6ohm 50w jobbies....

Question thou Steve is since they're only going inline with the High side of the bulb which is temporary "brakes, blinkers" I'd still theoretically be saving power over the incandescent because the LED low side "running lights" is going to draw alot less power than the standard?!

Or am I trying to kick water uphill again

Yeah, those 6 ohm resistors duplicate the load of the bright side of a 1157 lamp so that you don't need a no-load or low-load flasher. Which you have, so you shouldn't need one for every lamp.

Now, where did you get the flasher? Except for the ones specifically designed for LEDs, all of them need some load to work as far as I know. The trick is knowing just how much they do need, which is why I suggested trying some different resistor values. You can get these at any electronics store, RadioTrash should have them. If you can go smaller, it will reduce the power used. Pretty much the same thing for the convertor; how much load does it need to work?

As to the running/tail lights, you'll have a problem with the 'light checker' (a '79 Special-only item) that will make your oil(?) light come on if it detects a 'problem' with your taillight, that may even be true with the brake light, I'm not aware of just how that works; check the owners manual for more info (it's not in the service manual for some reason). You might be able to 'fool' it with a standard lamp in the OEM taillight and LED running lights, but if that doesn't work you'll probably have to disconnect it which may involve some rewiring.

You might want to do the mod to the indicator light first; if you keep the OEM lamp, that's about .3 amp load and would be included with all other turn lights for your total load. And this will work whether or not you swap the other lamps in, so there's no harm done even if you decide against the other mods.

Sure got complicated, eh?....

[cywelchjr]

It sounds like that "no load" flasher isn't really "no load" but rather "low load" and the load is just too low with the box in there. A higher value resistor than recommended that still saves energy would likely make it work will still allowing the box to be in there. I'm guessing that the box draws less than the LED's do.