Valve adjustment strategy

[ddragon63]

This project is on my "to do list" also... I haven't a clue the last time it was done. got the tool on order and the shim place on google bookmark... with hope and a prayer I'll just be sealing the valve cover back up and putting the tool in the box for use @ a later date. but somehow I doubt it will be that easy, nothing on this poor old dog has been that simple.

[ManagerMike]

Just a thought, if the shims tend to need to be replaced with thinner ones over time, might it be expedient to have a local machine shop thin them with a precision surface grinder?

[GLoweVA]

What about cost of the machining? Wouldn't it be cheaper to get/swap with ones from other members? (or even the local MC shop, if they will do it)
If you went to extreme widest tolerance, (might be a more little noise) but over time, and the amount of wear, you might not be doing a swap again for another decade.
I guess each one of us have different circumstances and locale that dictate which route will choose to do this adjustment.
(things like: the valve tool, pullling the cams, a local MC shop that'll swap shims, getting shims from another member (or the mail), a friend in a machine shop that'll thin them out for you, ... etc.)
But at least here in the XS11 forums, we can discuss each way we'd do things and give others ideas and options.

I probably wouldn't still have my bike (and my project) if it weren't for this site and the helpful fellow XSives here.
Thanks again.

[crazy steve]

Just a thought, if the shims tend to need to be replaced with thinner ones over time, might it be expedient to have a local machine shop thin them with a precision surface grinder?

Considering you can buy new shims for about $6 each and shop labor will be what, $50 per hour, it doesn't seem very economical to look at that. Plus you need a very fine surface finish, which most shops aren't set up to do.

One thing not mentioned in determining valve clearance is valve cooling. TC talked about running tighter clearances will give slightly better performance (as well as less noise) and that's true. But the valves shed a fair amount of their heat through the seat, and tighter clearances reduce the time the valve is in contact with it. This is why when they get too tight, burned valves are sometimes the result.

When Yamaha reduced the intake clearance from .006-.008" down to .004-.006" to reduce noise, they didn't mess with the exhaust numbers and the cooling was no doubt the reason. I'm sure that running the late, tighter intake spec contributes (if only a bit) to faster wear on the seats. I'll accept the noise, and run the early spec in all of these motors.

[ddragon63]

One of my good friends is my machinist and he always tells me "Don if I gotta do math its gonna cost ya!" The work itself would be cheap. its the time it will take them to measure and set up the mill or surfacing machine that will cost. if You have to replace every shim it will cost you about $50. Minimum charge @ a machine shop is usually 1/2 hour labor weather it take 5 minutes or not they're usually gonna charge you the house minimum. just food for thought

[James England]

I have quite a store of shims. so work out what you need and I'll see if I have any

I did my shims for the first time ever (on any bike) last year. I removed the camshafts because I don't feel easy about that Pro-Motion tool. From what I've read here, the tool often needs modifying and also I didn't like all that strain on the cam cover bolt hole.... I imagined it snapping the casting as it's very thin round that area.

It's essential to make a record of the clearances and the thickness of each shim and which valve it came from. Draw two lines of 4 circles on a chart, write the clearances in, then, one valve at a time, remove the shim and write the thickness on the chart.

By using the thickness chart in the manual, you can swap shims around to get the valves right. I found I only needed 2 shims to get the job done.

The engine was immediately noisier (all my clearances were too tight before I adjusted them).... as has been said, this is paradoxically how it should be.

If you remove the camshafts, be paranoidly careful when replacing everything. I found it very easy to get the valve timing wrong and it took me two attempts to get the camshafts on correctly. Needless to say, I did NOT turn the motor over with the starter until I'd triple-checked everything and turned the motor over gently with a wrench.

[old_chopper]

You don't need a special tool to remove the shims. Pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine over until the first valve is fully open. Double over a heavy zip tie and smash the loop with some pilers and insert it thru the spark plug hole directed toward the open valve. Push it in far enough to get between the seat and valve. Turn the engine over until the lobe is pointing up and away from the shim. There will now be adequate clearance to remove the shim. You can easily do this and remove all shims and record their sizes for future reference in an hour. I've used this method on my XS11 and GS550.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

interesting

My spark plug hole points strait at the piston, how do I get it to go in the valve and valve seat opening. I like the idea, just don't undrestand

You don't need a special tool to remove the shims. Pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine over until the first valve is fully open. Double over a heavy zip tie and smash the loop with some pilers and insert it thru the spark plug hole directed toward the open valve. Push it in far enough to get between the seat and valve. Turn the engine over until the lobe is pointing up and away from the shim. There will now be adequate clearance to remove the shim. You can easily do this and remove all shims and record their sizes for future reference in an hour. I've used this method on my XS11 and GS550.

[XS1100 Newbie]

The way i learned to do it, was easy. My tools were: 2 PCS of bondo spreader, a 12 inch standard screwdriver, with a 1/4 inch tip, a telescoping magnet, a small screwdriver, timing light, and misc wrenches. Took about an hour to check them all, and replace the ones i needed. Thank you Larry from Kelso.

[ViperRon]

With your gaps set to the minimum it the cam chain tension is set correctly then you should have minimal wear on the seats and valves also it will run much quieter this way. I would wait and get the tool as the adjustment doesn't change fast. I got my first tool from yamaha and lent it out never got it back and got the second on ebay for about $16.00. When you do it a magnet and a thin sharp knife can be handy. Rotate the shim caps to where you can see the knotch and use the tool to compress the valve carefully. It takes a little time to get the hang of where to place it for each valve. If the magnet will not break the shim free then the point of a small sharp knife in the knotch under the edge of the shim will break the seal. I suggest using the tool because the tolerances are not much and it may be a very slight difference just pulling and reinstalling the cams. The tool if used properly saves time reduces risk and you can get adjustment within .001 of perfect. Also make a chart of shim values and the end adjustment as it will be impossible to remember the next time you check it.

[Schming]

A Tool For Everytiing...

with your gaps set to the minimum it the cam chain tension is set correctly then you should have minimal wear on the seats and valves also it will run much quieter this way. I would wait and get the tool as the adjustment doesn't change fast. I got my first tool from yamaha and lent it out never got it back and got the second on ebay for about $16.00. When you do it a magnet and a thin sharp knife can be handy. Rotate the shim caps to where you can see the knotch and use the tool to compress the valve carefully. It takes a little time to get the hang of where to place it for each valve. If the magnet will not break the shim free then the point of a small sharp knife in the knotch under the edge of the shim will break the seal. I suggest using the tool because the tolerances are not much and it may be a very slight difference just pulling and reinstalling the cams. The tool if used properly saves time reduces risk and you can get adjustment within .001 of perfect. Also make a chart of shim values and the end adjustment as it will be impossible to remember the next time you check it.

+1 on using the tool

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Chopper,

That's an interesting technique. But I have some reservations! I remember how relatively soft the valve metal is, and having bent one by just trying to clean off carbon from one with a wire brush on a drill! I know the zip tie is only plastic, but by putting it between the valve head and the seat, you're introducing some lateral forces on the valve head/stem....and with the springs pulling fairly strongly against it, without the same piece of zip tie on the other side of the seat...I would think there could be a tendency to bend the valve head....even just a little, it only takes a little to cause the valve to not seat completely and therefor not seal=comp leak! JAT?

T.C.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Wow!

Wow TC, i had no idea they were that soft, no wonder so many on here have had bent and droped valves

Hey Chopper,

That's an interesting technique. But I have some reservations! I remember how relatively soft the valve metal is, and having bent one by just trying to clean off carbon from one with a wire brush on a drill! I know the zip tie is only plastic, but by putting it between the valve head and the seat, you're introducing some lateral forces on the valve head/stem....and with the springs pulling fairly strongly against it, without the same piece of zip tie on the other side of the seat...I would think there could be a tendency to bend the valve head....even just a little, it only takes a little to cause the valve to not seat completely and therefor not seal=comp leak! JAT?

T.C.

[ddragon63]

I'll let you know what I think of the tool some time in the next week.... i'm still hoping I don't have to use it. but for 12 bucks its worth having

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Tool

PM me when you try to use it if you like, it just takes a little tweeking, be glad to talk you through it on the phone

I'll let you know what I think of the tool some time in the next week.... i'm still hoping I don't have to use it. but for 12 bucks its worth having