Two Prong Flasher Auto Cancel Mod (Final)

[cywelchjr]

Thanks to ELDR for researching how the stock flasher works which gave me the background needed to figure this out. If you

are running LED turn signals you might consider his flasher module which does the same thing but is limited to LED lights

only.

This mod is really quite simple. It requires cutting two wires close to the flasher connector and wiring in two relays.

First, get together the parts and tools you will need to do this. Here is the list of parts and tools that I used.

Tools:

Soldering Iron
Needle Nose Pliers
DVOM for Troubleshooting

Parts:

Heat Shrink Tubing
Zip ties (cable ties)
Mounting bases for cable ties
10 Amp SPDT 12v 30 MA Relay Philmore part # BG-112
2 Amp DPDT 1v 15 MA sensitive coil Relay NTE part # R40-11D2-12
6" to 12" of 14 gauge stranded automotive wire



Now, your going to start by cutting two wires close to the flasher plug, one you can cut as close as you want, the other

you need to leave enough wire to strip, tin and solder another wire to.

Cut the Yellow/Green wire, you can cut this as close to the connector as you want, as it will NOT get connected back to the

connector, this is drive the 2 amp relay which will in turn drive the 10 amp relay. This is done because the 2 amp relay

cannot handle normal bulbs, but the auto cancel unit can't drive the 10 amp relay.

Next cut the Brown wire. Make sure to cut this far enough from the connector that you can connect another wire to both ends

to extend the wire, you will be inserting the 10 amp relay in here to enable it to turn off the turn signals when the auto

cancel unit tells it to.

Determine where you want to locate the relays, I located mine just below where the flasher unit lives, and since they are

really small and light I let them just hang by the wires, but you can fasten them in place with double sided tape or with

zip ties if you wish.

For the 2 amp relay find the switch side of the relay and connect the previous relay wire to one side switched setup for

normally open operation, connect the other side to either the brown wire of the turn signal relay or as I did connect it to

the downstream side of the turn signals fuse (I added it to the crimp connector). Connect the coil, one side to the

Green/Yellow wire from the bikes harness, and the other side to a good ground, I used the same ground screw as I used for

the other relay.

Now, slide some heat shrink over one of the wires for the coil side of the 10 amp relay, but keep it back a ways so it

doesn't shrink when you solder the wire. Solder the wire to the output of the 2 amp relay. Push the shrink tubing up and

strink it into place. Connect the other wire to a good ground, I used the ground screw of the accessory connector.

Find the leads for the switch side of the 10 amp relay, and find the normally closed side. The DVOM on ohms can be your

friend here. Solder a short piece of wire to each side of the normally closed switch. Put shrink tubing over it and shrink

it with a heat source (I use the soldering iron). Do the same with the coil side of the relay, keep track of which ones are

which.

Now, the last electrical part, solder the remaining two wires to the two brown wires, making sure to cover the solder

joints with heat shrink. Fasten everything into place, I used the cable tie mounting bases and cable ties to mount things,

and your ready to test.

If you did everything right, you can turn on the turn signals before starting the bike, and then start the bike. The turn

signals should not come on when the key is turned on. If they do, recheck your wiring job and parts, if everything is

working properly the system comes up with the flasher inhibited.

If this test passes, take it out for a test run, the auto cancel should work just like you have the stock flasher in place

with the correct normal bulbs, whether you have the normal bulbs or LED bulbs.

The Schematic:

[cywelchjr]

This is it folks. It works 100%, all the time. Took a couple of detours to get there, but I finally got it all figured out and working. I thought I had a problem but first found that I had them wired wrong, then realized I had my defective XS400 auto cancel unit installed. Put my good XS1100 auto cancel unit back in and got the wiring corrected and everything is just the way it's supposed to be.

[CatatonicBug]

Not too shabby! Thanks for all the work! It's the auto-cancel feature that has kept me from switching to LED turn signals. Since SuperBrightLEDs is right up the road from me, I'll likely be making this mod happen very soon. How about a picture of the finished product?

[old_skool]

what was your total cost?

[cywelchjr]

Well, I had the wire hanging around. And I always have zip ties hanging around (although unlike bigdick I don't use them to hold my bike together ) as well as solder and heat shrink. But the two relays ran around $10 so figure under $20 for parts if you need heat shrink and solder, assuming you have a soldering iron already. It took me about 2 months to get the design finalized to what I ended up with, as I tried several other combination before I ended up with the final design, so I actually spent a bit more than what I quoted here, but that was because I was prototyping the design as I went, and several rounds of different ways of doing it went through the mill, some of which ALMOST worked, but only the last of which really worked right, and now I've got a reed switch in my speedometer that's not liking cold very much, so it only works about 40-60% of the time when it's cold out (which is pretty much all the time right now), so I've got to source a new one of those (not putting a used one in there, going to put a brand new one in there that will be good for another 90,000+ miles) .

[DAVINCI]

Nice work, Cy. Did you ever determine how many amps is actually being pulled through that brown wire?

[old_skool]

This looked promising, after market self canceling module also allowing led lights, I know most aftermarket setups are for individual style signal buttons, but doesn't specify that on this one

http://www.amazon.com/Cancelling-Con.../dp/B0010ED3EK

[cywelchjr]

Nice work, Cy. Did you ever determine how many amps is actually being pulled through that brown wire?

I figured it out at around 7 amps. It's a bit closer to spec on the relay than I like, but going to a relay designed for the right amount of over current for proper design (50 to 100% over) would be larger than I wanted, plus the specs on the relay actually state it's rated for 10 amps continuous, so the pulsed flashers should be fine. The auto cancel unit ends up sourcing about 12ma and the main relay draws another 30ma from the flasher fuse as I have it wired. I'm planning on building a nice little bread board unit that can be wired in with only a single wire cut if you use those clip on wire splicers. It will be fun to make a few of them if anyone is interested. I'll make and test one and if it works as I expect I'll make two more and look for two beta testers. I'll provide the units to the testers for free, the others will be pretty much at about what it costs for me to make them and get them to you, I'll know what that's going to be after I build the first one, as I'll probably see about ordering the parts in bulk from digikey, it's generally cheaper that way.

[cywelchjr]

This looked promising, after market self canceling module also allowing led lights, I know most aftermarket setups are for individual style signal buttons, but doesn't specify that on this one

http://www.amazon.com/Cancelling-Con.../dp/B0010ED3EK

Sure, you can spend $80, plus a bunch of time trying to wire it in and get it working with the bikes system, or you can plug in a two prong flasher, cut two wires and wire in two relays and have the same functionality using the functionality already built into the bike by Yamaha when the bike was built. I could see that being worth it on a vehicle that doesn't have auto cancel to start with, but I'll bet it doesn't cover the situations that the Yamaha system covers so simply. It's pretty amazing how well the two variables work to have the flashers stay on long enough most of the time but not two long.

100 feet, or 10 seconds, whichever keeps them on the longest. No aftermarket system can do that without having to add at least some sort of sensor to the wheel to measure distance at a minimum, this is all built into the bike in stock form.

[old_skool]

If the electrical self canceling fails, will the distance cancellation continue to work?

[crazy steve]

If the electrical self canceling fails, will the distance cancellation continue to work?

It's all electrical; the canceller gets 'pulses' from the reed switch mounted in the speedo, then makes a calculation based on speed/distance (how many pulses in how much time) to 'decide' when to cancel.

[cywelchjr]

It's all electrical; the canceller gets 'pulses' from the reed switch mounted in the speedo, then makes a calculation based on speed/distance (how many pulses in how much time) to 'decide' when to cancel.

Actually it's number of pulses and amount of time, when BOTH have happened, then the cancel signal happens. Usually one happens well before the other, so the one that takes the longest to happen wins, but if either one fails to happen, then the cancel never happens. Two common failures I've seen are the reed switch, and someone working on the turn signal switch and getting the two fingers at the top pushed in so they are always in contact, keeping the cancel unit always engaged so it never cancels.

[CatatonicBug]

Cy - I finally got all the pieces together to make this mod happen this weekend, and failed miserably. The little tabs on the relays are so tiny that the weight of the wires ended up snapping them off! I found a socket for the 2A relay to prevent this from happening again. I couldn't find a socket for the 10A relay, but those pins are a little more robust.

I have ordered new relays (and a socket), but I'm a bit confused. When looking at the circuit diagram, I don't see the reason for a DPDT relay. It only uses half the pins. Wouldn't a SPDT relay work just fine? OFC, I'm mostly clueless when it comes to components.

The 2A relay has 8 pins on it, and they are numbered 1,4,6,8,9,11,13,16. According to the Data Sheet, 1 and 16 are the coil pins. If I'm reading it correctly, 4 and 13 are both common, then 6 and 11 are NC, and 8 and 9 are NO. Am I reading that correctly? If so, Which pins are the correct ones to use?

Would this be correct?

Pin 1 - spliced to yellow/green on the flasher plug
Pin 16 - to negative screw on accessory jack (convenient ground screw in the area)
Pin 4 - spliced to +12v wire on the Turn Signal fuse
Pin 8 - to coil pin on 10A relay

Then, for the 10A relay, there are 5 pins. Thankfully, they are well-marked. The 2 coil pins, a common pin, a NO pin, and a NC pin.

One coil pin is already connected to the 2A relay. The other goes to the same Neg terminal on the Accessory block.
The brown wire from the flasher connector gets cut, and re-connected to the Common pin and the NC pin. I used bullet connectors here instead of soldering, so I can remove the relays and put it back to stock if desired.
The NO pin is not used.

Can you verify that this is correct? What I plan to do is get this circuit all working, then pot the whole unit in a container of silicone to make it waterproof and vibration-resistant.

[DAVINCI]

What I plan to do is get this circuit all working, then pot the whole unit in a container of silicone to make it waterproof and vibration-resistant.

And unrepairable, I might add.

[cywelchjr]

Cy - I finally got all the pieces together to make this mod happen this weekend, and failed miserably. The little tabs on the relays are so tiny that the weight of the wires ended up snapping them off! I found a socket for the 2A relay to prevent this from happening again. I couldn't find a socket for the 10A relay, but those pins are a little more robust.

I zip tied everything up so nothing was hanging by any of the leads for this very reason. Had I not had my traffic accident I would probably already have made at least one example of a unit done on perfboard. I may still do so when I get back to work, but we'll have to see on that.

To make you feel better though, I initially had the same problem, but it was only on the switching side, so I just used the other half of the relay.

I have ordered new relays (and a socket), but I'm a bit confused. When looking at the circuit diagram, I don't see the reason for a DPDT relay. It only uses half the pins. Wouldn't a SPDT relay work just fine? OFC, I'm mostly clueless when it comes to components.

Its what was readily available in a sensitive coil relay that was easy to find that I new people could order online easily. I wasn't able to find a relay that did ONLY what I needed and while the DPDT is indeed overkill, that doesn't hurt anything and frankly price wise they seem to price about the same for both.

The 2A relay has 8 pins on it, and they are numbered 1,4,6,8,9,11,13,16. According to the Data Sheet, 1 and 16 are the coil pins. If I'm reading it correctly, 4 and 13 are both common, then 6 and 11 are NC, and 8 and 9 are NO. Am I reading that correctly? If so, Which pins are the correct ones to use?

Would this be correct?

Pin 1 - spliced to yellow/green on the flasher plug
Pin 16 - to negative screw on accessory jack (convenient ground screw in the area)
Pin 4 - spliced to +12v wire on the Turn Signal fuse
Pin 8 - to coil pin on 10A relay

Then, for the 10A relay, there are 5 pins. Thankfully, they are well-marked. The 2 coil pins, a common pin, a NO pin, and a NC pin.

One coil pin is already connected to the 2A relay. The other goes to the same Neg terminal on the Accessory block.
The brown wire from the flasher connector gets cut, and re-connected to the Common pin and the NC pin. I used bullet connectors here instead of soldering, so I can remove the relays and put it back to stock if desired.
The NO pin is not used.

Can you verify that this is correct? What I plan to do is get this circuit all working, then pot the whole unit in a container of silicone to make it waterproof and vibration-resistant.

Yes, you have the pinouts correct with the correct connections determined. Those are the same ones that I used except I used 9 and 13 but those function exactly the same I'm just using the other half of the relay (because I broke the pins off on 4 and 8).

Rather than putting it all in silicone which is corrosive to electronics in many cases, I would recommend mounting it all on perf board. The relays will stand up to water just fine, the one is fully sealed and the other is pretty water resistant. I've run mine in weather and washed the bike several times now with no problems at all. I didn't use bullet connectors (frankly I didn't think of that) but that sounds like a good idea.