xs1100 turning into a trike

[crazy steve]

...I plan on changing the welder over to gas and solid wire setup since I replaced the inner shield and found out it is also set up for gas...

While I love my wirefeed welder, I'm pretty careful about where I use it. While most are rated to weld up to 1/4" material (more if you have a 230v unit), you simply won't get the penetration you should have in a high-strength application with thicker material. You also get slightly more reduced penetration when running flux-core wire. Yeah, I know lots of guys have built all sorts of stuff with these, up to and including trailers, but I've also seen more than a few weld failures. Mine is rated to 1/4", but I won't use it if the material is any thicker than 1/8". For structural welding on a motorcycle frame, no way would I use one unless it's fairly thin stock, say .090" or less.

The XS frame and swingarm was factory welded using an arc process, and that was for strength purposes. I'll be honest and say that if your new swingarm and frame mods were done with a wirefeed, you're really taking a chance IMO. You noted that it's really hard to break the welds, but a properly-done arc weld will be all-but-impossible to break, and on thicker material the weld won't fail; the parent metal will first. Your design will be putting a lot of torsional stress on many of the welds, and those are the type of stresses that wirefeed is the weakest on.

My rule of thumb is if the machine can't burn a hole in the material, you're not getting enough penetration.

I don't want to see anyone get hurt....

[DCracer25]

Here goes my machine will burn a hole through 1/4 steel plate if I turn it up that high and I usually test weld a couple of pieces just to see if I burn through then set the welder just shy of burning through because its harder for me at least (I don't know about anyone else) to fix a hole that was burned through when trying to weld a seem together in the first place. I know some here don't like my welds and thats ok free world we live in for the most part. but as I said before I do grind and reweld. And wire feed welders have come along ways in the past few yrs. arc welding or stick welding isn't for me, I have done it before and it sucks worse than my wire feed welding does. I am not perfect and don't want to be either. If you live close enough come on over and teach me or show me how its done and I'll buy you a case of beer of your choice or feed you a steak dinner or both. I could use the experience of somehow holding my hands a little steadier when I weld. as I said before I have a problem holding my hands very steady so I go with the flow. NOW as this thread has gotten side tracked I have picked up a tilton master brake cylinder and a inline residual valve and a stainless steel brake line for the rear brakes, will start putting that on tomorrow. also I have made a couple pieces that I have to weld on the frame so I can bolt on the emergency brake handle. will take pics of before and after and post them.

[CaptonZap]

Here's a deal.
Go to this site, and nose around. Watch a few of the videos, and if you are still feeling generous with the beer and steak, send the equivalent amount to the guy to help his expenses. CZ

<The_Welding_Video_Review_Newsletter@weldingtipsan dtricks.com>

[fredintoon]

- - - wire feed welders have come along ways in the past few yrs. arc welding or stick welding isn't for me, I have done it before and it sucks worse than my wire feed welding does. - - - I could use the experience of somehow holding my hands a little steadier when I weld. - - -

Hi 'racer,
the guys in our welding shop used to say they got their best welds when they were hung over because the necessary stinger shake was automatic so they didn't have to think about it.
Perhaps they were winding me up?
You could rig up a broom handle close to the work to slide your wrist along as you weld?

[TomB]

And just to prove we all make mistakes sometimes, even the big boys get it wrong sometimes, when grinding back some of the unwanted Yamaha weld I found that it was not attached to the frame at all (see pics) You can see where it was sat against the frame, but no depth penetration at all. Excuse the fuzzy pic.

[DCracer25]

nice pics can you tell me what you are doing to the frame?

[TomB]

The headstock was bent so I made a jig and straightened the frame, to allow it to straighten easier I cut off the bracing under the headstock, whilst doing that I realised how pathetic the bracing and headstock was so welded tubes back in instead of the brace. I monoshocked the back end too.

[fredintoon]

The headstock was bent so I made a jig and straightened the frame, to allow it to straighten easier I cut off the bracing under the headstock, whilst doing that I realised how pathetic the bracing and headstock was so welded tubes back in instead of the brace. I monoshocked the back end too.

Hi Tom,
got any photos of the monoshock frame?
BTW, nice looking welds on the headstock bracing job but are you sure that welding onto the lower headrace housing was a good idea? Did'ja check if the housing had gone egg-shaped after the welds cooled?

[DCracer25]

build

This has been a good day, got all the welding done, new tabs put on, installed the wilwood master cylinder with steel braided line and a residual valve, now got to go and pick up some brake fluid. Next I welded a tab on the frame and drilled and tapped the alum brace. to bolt the emergincy brake handle on, then hooked the cable up as well. then I put my carbs back together after they soaked for 48 hours in original pinesol and some cleaning for the tough spots with carb cleaner. I am very suprized that the pinesol worked as good as it did. took some pics, sorry forgot to take pics of carbs before I soaked them they were pretty bad.

[motoman]

True, very true, but (professional) experience tells me that welds that look bad generally are bad.

Just looked through the previous post and this is generally true. Gonna have alot of splatter using flux-core, but somewhat better penatration than with argon/co. I know my Lincoln 135 wire feed is limited, but very convenient and versatile using Argon for a shield. Having 220V, also use the Lincoln stick welder on anything under stress or material thicker than 1/4". The larger 220V Miller, Lincoln wire feeds I would have no issue choosing to use on UP to 3/8" on anything with load stresses on it. Just remember, your MAKING steel so travel speed IS key along with correct setting. Run setting up on a trial piece till you just see some undercutting on edges of weld and back it off a bit. If it's 'stacking it up a bit either setting is too cold or travel speed is a bit slow. Even with 30+ years of certification it's kinda hard to explain at times........practice, practice, practice, experiment and more practice just like anything else. With correct settings, a rythem IS key and a close arc will get u an even weld and a consistant same spacing beads.... long arc WILL cause contamination under weld, specially using a stick welder WILL cause flux contamination under weld if arc and rod aren't feed with a close arc. The flux on stick rod is mostly for shielding except for Jet-Weld. It is a metal impregnated flux and besides shielding is part of the welding material. It can be used in FLAT position welding ONLY, makes alot of heat, easiest to use and easiest to get in trouble using if not a seasoned welder. Lincoln invented that rod during WWII for ship building and with the peace work used then alot of women were used during ship building. Some quick simple basics could be taught and this rod was full proof with some simple basics knowledge and FLAT welding ONLY. If all is set right and travel speed correct, flux will lift and peel off in one long strip behind a cooling weld. Can even lay stinger across a fire brick at correct angle, turn on machine and it will lay a bead itself with no assist! Another little trick if you want a quick hole in up to a 1/2" piece is dip Lincoln's 5-P (6011) in water first, run amps up 1/3 more and blow a hole whatever size your needin'.........

[TomB]

Hi Tom,
Did'ja check if the housing had gone egg-shaped after the welds cooled?

Yup, I made a bearing sized solid insert to fit in the head stock instead of the taper bearing, which soaked away the heat of welding. This also acted as my holder for the precision measuring shaft I used to straighten the head stock. Photos are on UK XS11 forum. PM sent.

I'll not go on, don't wanna spoil DCracer25's thread with my waffle

[DCracer25]

build

Hey I think I found a small enough gear to bolt on the flange on the rear end to put a small starter on with a relay and push button on the handle bars for reverse. only problem is the gear made by winters racing products is $75.00 a bit exspensive if you ask me but like anything else if you want to play you have to pay, as they say. maybe I can find a used one, who knows but will let everyone know how I make out.

[DCracer25]

build

Got my new to me but used special front forks and brake assembly today will be rebuilding them. and they are about 3 inches longer than my standards forks. Since I will have them apart should I change the springs? Also what is the largest tire I can safely put on the front? tire now is a 3.50 h19 and is dry rotted. and what oil to put in them when done?

[fredintoon]

Got my new to me but used special front forks and brake assembly today will be rebuilding them. and they are about 3 inches longer than my standards forks. Since I will have them apart should I change the springs? Also what is the largest tire I can safely put on the front? tire now is a 3.50 h19 and is dry rotted. and what oil to put in them when done?

Hi 'racer,
the Special forks mount the axle on the front of the sliders instead of underneath them so although they measure longer the height from the axle to the steering head is the same. It's the changed axle position that moves the axle forward to reduce steering trail when you mix'n'match Special forks and Standard triple trees. BTW, the Special's front brake pads are supposed to be tapered like that.
Dennis Kirk sells a spring kit that's common to the Special & the Standard. The kit has a length of plastic tube that you saw off into spacers to make the springs fit the Special. Those work fine if you suspect the originals are sagging out. Also change the fork seals while you are in there.
3.50-19 is about the fattest tire that will fit inside the fender. The modern equivalent is 100/90-19. OK, my son fitted a 110/90-19 on his XS750 but there was scarily little clearance between the tire & the fender.
What you can do if you can live with a tubed tire is use an Avon sidecar universal tire. It has a flat car-tire profile that's ideal for a trike and the only size it comes in is 3.50-19.
Fork oil for sure; engine oil has high temperature features that forks don't need and lacks the anti-foaming features that they do need. I use 20W in my sidecar rig, your trike will be loaded about the same.

[DCracer25]

build

Ok thanks for the reply. I am replacing the seals and was just asking if a heavier spring is needed for triking it. also where can I get the avon tire?