Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

[neJeff]

Hey Jeff,

You're in good hands with these guys, but if you'll search for Alternative Alternator Option...oh never mind, here's the actual link to it:
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ive+alternator


you'll find a long thread about putting on a Mini-Automotive 1 wire alternator....not a simple bolt on procedure, but is another option....albeit a bit drastic!

T.C.

Very interesting...maybe a bit drastic...but interesting. Haven't had a chance to anything with it mechanically for several days but the stator/field coil I ordered is due in Tuesday so I'll be back at it. I read on another thread a guy determined his reg/rect was bad by unplugging it after he had bike started and his light came on. Does anyone know if this is a reliable test? I'll try it in a couple of days. Thanks again to all for your help

[neJeff]

Okay, never ending drama continues...got the stator/field coil in yesterday (day early) and also got seperate package of side covers (yeah!) and rear turn signals. My bike had some add on flexible lights and I wanted them gone and back to originals. When I went to remove the wiring of the add-ons there was some suspect spots with the wiring (also it was about 8 feet of wire for a 12" job) and a tiny spot of exposed wiring but not enough I thought much of it. Put the original type signal lights on, hooked up the wires and thought I would take for a spin. Lo and behold the damn headlight pops on and you can tell I'm pulling some positive volts out of this "supposed" broken charging system. Did not get a chance to get the voltmeter wired up but will do that today. Crazy Steve was right all along, have some wiring gremlins living in this bike and not a charging hardware issue

[natemoen]

Glad you found it. PO's manage some special things sometimes!

[cywelchjr]

Okay, never ending drama continues...got the stator/field coil in yesterday (day early) and also got seperate package of side covers (yeah!) and rear turn signals. My bike had some add on flexible lights and I wanted them gone and back to originals. When I went to remove the wiring of the add-ons there was some suspect spots with the wiring (also it was about 8 feet of wire for a 12" job) and a tiny spot of exposed wiring but not enough I thought much of it. Put the original type signal lights on, hooked up the wires and thought I would take for a spin. Lo and behold the damn headlight pops on and you can tell I'm pulling some positive volts out of this "supposed" broken charging system. Did not get a chance to get the voltmeter wired up but will do that today. Crazy Steve was right all along, have some wiring gremlins living in this bike and not a charging hardware issue

When it comes to wiring Crazy Steve is very often right, he knows that stuff really well. It can also throw you off when you do something and something that seems to be related happens, then turns out it was coincidence after all. At least you have a spare now. I have two of them.

[howdy_doody]

Same issue 2 years later!!

I'm hoping Crazy Steve is still around this board. I have a stock, 28,000 mile 1980 XS 1100G with the same charging issues. No headlight but tach working fine. I pulled the alternator field connector behind the fuse box and resistance is good and nothing to ground.

Up at the regulator, it is showing a short to ground on the brown wire. Pulled all the fuses and nothing indicated a short (had a slight change when I pulled the turn signal fuse). So...I have a short somewhere in the brown wire circuit, correct? I disconnected the taillight wiring, turn signal switch, and every black box I could reach. Still no luck.

Any clue where this short could be?

[howdy_doody]

Update, I pulled the ignition fuse and the turn signal circuit fuse and now there is no short to ground. I believe this is normal as when the key is switched to ON, the brown circuit becomes 12V and both the ignition unit and nuetral light/oil pressure light will go to ground. There is no short in the sytsem.

I did try running a straight 12V to the field circuit and could not get the alternator to put out any voltage. At the connector behind the fuse box, I ran 12V+ to the Green wire and Grounded to the Black wire. No output. I will try reversing these wires to see if the Alternator puts out...otherwise I have a bad alternator??

[kflyboy]

voltage regulator

Been dealing with known charging issues for awhile. The light/charging system has worked on and off but I recently took cover off the alternator to have a look and tightened up a loose bolt I found, since then I get nothing in the charging arena. Put a different used reg/rect that was supposedly tested and it did nothing. Re-checked the field coil and stator for ohms and again it is in spec where it should be. Guess I need another reg/rect. I did the off the bike ohm test for the reg but I get no change in reading on my multimeter for either one of these. Any other test before I purchase another bad unit

I had the same types of problems with my 80G. I ended up replacing the voltage regulator-both alternator connectors and the ignition coil connectors and the ignition coil harness. Also the starter harness connector on the right side handlebar. Everything works now. After 30yrs. I think ALL of the connectors are bad regardless of HOW good they look or seem to work.

[3Phase]

howdy_doody,

You wrote that the tachometer is working so that means at least part of the alternator is working. The tachometer counts the number of 'pulses' on one of the three White wires from the alternator to determine the engine RPM.

You're right about that Brown wire. It's the switched power wire that runs from the Ignition switch down to the Fuse block and it supplies 12 Volts to the Voltage Regulator and the alternator Field winding along the way. Be very careful with those Red and Brown wires at the Regulator/Rectifier connectors. The only fuse for those wires is the 30 Amp Main fuse on the Red wire that runs up to the Ignition switch from the battery.


If you want to test the alternator Field winding: turn on the Ignition switch and hold a steel feeler gauge next to the alternator cover on the right-hand side of the engine. If the field winding is working then the feeler gauge will stick to the cover.

If the field winding it working and you want to test the alternator output then ground the Green wire at the three-pole Voltage Regulator connector to 'full field' the alternator.

The charging system on the XS1100 works the same way as a Chrysler charging system. The Voltage Regulator controls the system voltage by varying the amount current returning from the Field winding to ground.

The Brown wire supplies 12 Volts to the Field winding and the Green wire is the return from the Field winding.

Putting 12 Volts on the Green wire from the Field winding won't do anything useful because it already has 12 Volts at the other end of the winding from the Brown wire.



If you've been trying to get the headlight to come on when the engine is not running then that's not supposed to work. The Headlight relay gets its power from the alternator and it's only supposed to turn on the headlight when the engine is running and the alternator starts making power.

For the headlight problem on your '80G you may have:
bad 10 Amp fuse
bad headlight
bad headlight relay
bad diode (connected inline to the relay on one of the White wires from the alternator)
bad RLU (Reserve Lighting Unit)
any of several connectors dirty or burned
bad headlight High/Low beam switch

If the headlight doesn't come on when the engine is running try bypassing the Headlight relay and see if the lights come on. Remove the 4-pole connector from the relay (it's near the front of the frame underneath the fuel tank) and put a jumper wire between the Red/Yellow wire and the Blue/Black wire.

If the lights come on when you bypass the Headlight relay:
The relay itself is bad
The diode on the White wire in the wiring harness is bad


Happy troubleshooting!

.

[howdy_doody]

OK, I did the feeler gage check and it does indeed stick to the RH engine cover with the ignition on.

Then I tried grounding the green wire at the regulator. Ran the engine up to 3000 and no change in voltage. So the alternator's not working or just working enough to run the tach??

I already did the headlight relay bypass without realizing the bike wasn't charging the system. Almost left me stranded 3 miles from home till I thought about pulling the headlight fuse to stop draining down the battery. That and a push start got me home!

So...guess I have a bad stator? Never had the right side cover of to look inside.

[3Phase]

OK, I did the feeler gage check and it does indeed stick to the RH engine cover with the ignition on.

Check.

Then I tried grounding the green wire at the regulator. Ran the engine up to 3000 and no change in voltage. So the alternator's not working or just working enough to run the tach??

Maybe. You tested for ground at the Field winding connector behind the Fuse Block. Did you also test the Stator windings?

With the Ignition off, unplug both connectors from the Regulator/Rectifier or the ones behind the Fuse Block and measure the resistance of the Field and Stator windings.

Field winding:
Brown wire to Green wire: 3.5 Ohms.
Brown wire to Ground: infinity.
Green wire to Ground: infinity.

Stator windings:
Any White wire to any other White wire: 0.4 Ohms.
Any White wire to Ground: infinity.

Don't worry about the unconnected Yellow wire that's in the 4-pole connector behind the Fuse Block with the three White wires from the alternator. The Yellow wire is connected to the Wye center-tap for the three phase alternator windings but it's not used in your '80G.

If you're feeling adventurous (), go ahead and measure the resistance between the Yellow wire and the three White wires, then between the Yellow wire and Ground.

Yellow wire to any White wire: ~ 0.2 Ohms (or half of the resistance of any White wire to any other White wire).
Yellow wire to Ground: infinity.

I already did the headlight relay bypass without realizing the bike wasn't charging the system.

Alright, but did bypassing the Headlight relay make the headlight come on or not?

Almost left me stranded 3 miles from home till I thought about pulling the headlight fuse to stop draining down the battery. That and a push start got me home!

So...guess I have a bad stator? Never had the right side cover of to look inside.

Running the battery flat sucks! May I assume that the headlight was working since you were going to pull its fuse to get home or was it only the Running/Marker lights and the Instrument lights?


Before you start looking for parts:

Measure the resistance of the Stator and Field windings.

Check the Stator and Field connectors up at the Regulator/Rectifier and the ones down behind the Fuse Block for dirt, corrosion, or burning.

Test the Rectifier diodes. Do you know how to use a multimeter to test the diodes in a rectifier bridge?


.

[howdy_doody]

Yes, the headlight was working after bypassing the relay. The XS11 headlight system was one of my first projects when I purchased this bike over 20 years ago. I know it well, and assumed that the relay had failed. I was ready to simply bypass it and keep riding the bike. Then I found out the battery wasn't being charged (even thought the tach is working fine).

I will recheck all the windings for resistance and grounding. I also went through the regulator tests in the manual, reversing each with my ohmmeter to insure the diodes were good.

It will be tonight before I can do all the rechecks, in the meantime I'm pondering what the heck else can be doing this? And which parts do I start throwing at it? I've never tampered with the wiring (except to install a bladed fuse box), the bike has 28K miles and this all hit out of the blue with no warning issues.

[howdy_doody]

Checked out the stator an it is shorted to ground. Time to get another one, I've read a couple of good posts about this rebuilder: http://www.tpe-usa.com/
Comments?

[3Phase]

Checked out the stator an it is shorted to ground. Time to get another one, I've read a couple of good posts about this rebuilder: http://www.tpe-usa.com/
Comments?

Well that's not good but at least you found the problem!

How much for the rebuild with shipping and what's the turnaround?

If you're pressed for time there are some good used stators on eBay but some of them are a little steep for used electrical parts. Here's one that looks good in the picture for $28.50 but the seller says may have been spliced so it probably needs some new connectors:-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/78-Yamaha-XS...-/110754327698


.

[howdy_doody]

$82 shipped. I'm leaning towards the rebuild. If my 28K bike one failed, I'm not sure any used ones are going to be better for me. I will confirm for sure that this solved my problem and thank you tremendously for your help 3phase!

[howdy_doody]

Pulled the stator out and ready to ship off. I found 3 out of 4 of the retaining screws had fallen out and were loose in the housing. The last one loose in the hole. There are also contact marks where the spinning rotor contacted the stator, probably contributing to shorting out the stator. I wonder how common this situation is?