Bad Oil

[DiverRay]

I would just go to an oil that has NO FRICTION MODIFIERS and is NOT synthetic. You do NOT need to go from full synth to partial to dyno! I use the "modern" GTX with no problems in the MNS, and I was running a 15W40 in the '79 with no problems until Chevron went to friction modifiers in the Delo.
As Steve said, the synthetic WILL seep out of seals! This is because of the makeup of the oil.

[g15usmc]

Well , I went from dino to full syn. Could that be the cause?

I dont think that switching should cause an issue, but i know that some people have had issues after switching to the synthetic...

What basis do you have for this suggestion? I cant see any harm in switching directly back to regular...

I dont believe that it would necessarily harm anything, i just figure it is kind of like switching from drinking whole milk to skim milk...it tastes, Watery...but if you go from whole to 2% to 1% to skim then it isn't so harsh on the tastebuds...not that it would actually harm you any...according to valvoline there is nothing wrong with going from regular to synthetic and switching back and forth...just have been suggested by "real" mechanics...and I am not a "real" mechanic...here is a link i just read on the valvoline website...click on the pic
according to this it doesn't actually matter...

[WMarshy]

I dont think that switching should cause an issue, but i know that some people have had issues after switching to the synthetic...


I dont believe that it would necessarily harm anything, i just figure it is kind of like switching from drinking whole milk to skim milk...it tastes, Watery...but if you go from whole to 2% to 1% to skim then it isn't so harsh on the tastebuds...not that it would actually harm you any...according to valvoline there is nothing wrong with going from regular to synthetic and switching back and forth...just have been suggested by "real" mechanics...and I am not a "real" mechanic...here is a link i just read on the valvoline website...click on the pic
according to this it doesn't actually matter...

Nice thought but I dont think that analogy applies much here. Thanks for the link, I use the Vavoline motorcycle oil myself...From your link...

" Is it ok to switch back and forth between regular and synthetic motor oil? I heard this causes leaks? Is this true?

Switching between synthetic and conventional oil does not cause problems. Because the oils are compatible, you can switch back and forth as often as you like.

Can you mix different types of motor oil? For example, synthetic and synthetic blend or regular and synthetic? Is this going to cause problems?

Mixing synthetic and conventional oils will not cause any problems. The oils are compatible with each other."

[g15usmc]

Nice thought but I dont think that analogy applies much here. Thanks for the link, I use the Vavoline motorcycle oil myself...From your link...

" Is it ok to switch back and forth between regular and synthetic motor oil? I heard this causes leaks? Is this true?

Switching between synthetic and conventional oil does not cause problems. Because the oils are compatible, you can switch back and forth as often as you like.

Can you mix different types of motor oil? For example, synthetic and synthetic blend or regular and synthetic? Is this going to cause problems?

Mixing synthetic and conventional oils will not cause any problems. The oils are compatible with each other."

Yeh I didn't think the analogy really would apply all that well...but, it sounds like it makes sense...kind of, not really...

[b.walker5]

The Castrol I posted a pic of is made specifically for classic bikes. They produce a whoe range of oils, right back to vintage bikes with leather oil seals etc.

The 20/50 smells completely different from modern oil. As I said, I always used to use Castrol GTX. I thought that, still being on sale and called the same, that it would be the same oil. It isn't! I spoke to Castrol and they said modern GTX very different to the oil of the same name in the 80's. Apparently, that's why they produce the Classic oil... to cater for older bikes.

I'm with you on the Caltex part James, It's the only oil I've ever used on all my bikes and cars, however I use 15W40. Back in the day it used to be called "GTX Turbo" over here, now it's just plain GTX. It might be a different recipe now but I've never had any problems with it. I have a friend who exclusively uses the 4T that Greg talks about, and he swears by it, to the point that everything else is inferior in his view, but I've yet to see any difference in performance, and we both ride everywhere together.

[BA80]

I have never seen the stuff y'all are talking about or even know if it's available here in the states. I have no doubt it's the right thing to use if available.

The 4T is readily available at the auto parts store right down the street and seems to work quite well.

[Nubian]

What does the 4T designation stand for? It seems that a lot of riders are happy with it (no clutch issues). I thought it was strictly dino oil. But just found Valvoline and Mobil make a full synthetic 4T oil in 10w/40 and 20w/50. Before going back to dino I thought I would give 4T full synthetic a try.

[BA80]

Best answer I could find........

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/arc.../t-669981.html

[Nubian]

Best answer I could find........

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/arc.../t-669981.html

Must be more to it than that. Both companies make motorcycle oil and motorcycle 4T oil.

[jwhughes3]

mobil 1

http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/..._Oil_FAQs.aspx

Mobil 1 changed name from 2T to 4T because 4T was how it was known outside US and they wanted consistency. Says formulation didn't change from 2T. Doesn't say what the T stands for, but from other site I suspect the French "temps" = "stroke" is likely closest guess?

John

[Nubian]

http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/..._Oil_FAQs.aspx

Mobil 1 changed name from 2T to 4T because 4T was how it was known outside US and they wanted consistency. Says formulation didn't change from 2T. Doesn't say what the T stands for, but from other site I suspect the French "temps" = "stroke" is likely closest guess?

John

I think the 4T is targeting the racing market.

[crazy steve]

The marketing of motor oil has turned into a real thicket for the trying-to-be-informed consumer to beat his way through...

When these bikes were new, you could grab any quality 20w40 off the shelf and expect no problems. Now, with all the different types and the hype and claims/counterclaims, you have to pay pretty good attention. I'll agree with Ray to a point; stay away from anything with a friction modifier in it, but I don't share his dislike for synthetic; I've used it, but really didn't see any benefit other than more $$ in the oil co. pockets.. and the mentioned tendency for it to leak more.

One thing I don't like doing, and that's going outside the original recommedations for viscosity. I've done that a few times, and that does change how some motors run. Putting 15w50 in place of 20w40 or 20w50 has resulted in more engine noise on a couple of bikes, but whether that's good or bad in terms of longevity I can't say. But I would think that quieter would be better...

[Nubian]

Got it!!!!!
This is from Mobil oil's website. The full link is below. The key difference is......"friction modifiers"

Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for cars does not?

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motor oil has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

In addition, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has a high performance dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars. (Updated December 2007)

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What about Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 motor oil? How is that different from Mobil 1 for passenger cars?

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 fully synthetic motor oil is designed for air-cooled, large-displacement bikes. Because of their design, these engines can generate very high localized oil temperatures and high overall bulk-oil temperatures.

As you know, a typical air-cooled V-twin's rear cylinder gets a lot hotter than the front cylinder – it's a matter of airflow. When it's hot out and you're stuck in traffic, the oil temperature in your bike climbs rapidly. Above about 250°F, conventional motor oil is going to break down. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 fully synthetic motor oil is good to above 300°F.

Like Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40, Mobil 1 V-Twin has high levels of phosphorus/zinc and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures.

With Mobil 1 V-Twin oil, you can go the full length of the manufacturer's recommended oil change intervals with ease.

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http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...AQs.aspx#FAQs1

Now a little more detail in the features and benefits section for V-Twin 20w/50 it says "Has optimized frictional properties" .What does that mean?

[Nubian]

The marketing of motor oil has turned into a real thicket for the trying-to-be-informed consumer to beat his way through...

When these bikes were new, you could grab any quality 20w40 off the shelf and expect no problems. Now, with all the different types and the hype and claims/counterclaims, you have to pay pretty good attention. I'll agree with Ray to a point; stay away from anything with a friction modifier in it, but I don't share his dislike for synthetic; I've used it, but really didn't see any benefit other than more $$ in the oil co. pockets.. and the mentioned tendency for it to leak more.

One thing I don't like doing, and that's going outside the original recommedations for viscosity. I've done that a few times, and that does change how some motors run. Putting 15w50 in place of 20w40 or 20w50 has resulted in more engine noise on a couple of bikes, but whether that's good or bad in terms of longevity I can't say. But I would think that quieter would be better...

My book says 20w/40 41F and above and 10w/30 59F and below I ride year round and will change oil no more than once a year.
Is 10w/40 a decent compromise for year round use or 20w/50 for year round use. (I live in the northeast). If not what do you recommend?

[3Phase]

What weight is that?

It's 4T weight.


I've been running Redline 10W-40 automotive oil in my '80G for over 1000 miles now after 2000 miles on Mobile1 4T 20W-50 motorcycle oil.

So far, I haven't experienced any of the problems that have been reported with synthetic oil.

Except for the sucking sound from the wallet, the synthetic oils don't seem to be any better or worse than dino oil but I don't ride in the Antarctic so I'm probably missing out on all those low temperature synthetic benefits that don't really begin to shine until the thermometer drops below -40 degrees anyway. I will probably get a chance to test the high temperature synthetic benefits tomorrow on the way to Durango.


Right now:

The synthetics have cleaned up some of the very light varnish that was beginning to form underneath the valve cover so it probably cleaned a few other places and parts, too, but I'm not going to tear apart the engine just to look at it.

The starter doesn't skip or drag and it works every time.

The clutch doesn't slip unless I pull the lever.

No oil has crawled, dribbled, foamed, fumed, leaked, poured, seeped, or otherwise escaped from captivity inside the engine.

The engine does burn a little more 10W-40 than 20W-50 during sustained cruising above 70 MPH but it's not bad and it does the same thing with dino oil too, not just synthetic oil.


I had the Redline left over from when I had my Chevy van so it was already bought and paid for but I did buy one bottle of Redline 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil for refilling the engine before the next oil change. Yes, I know, Redline says it's compatible with other oils but I don't want to mix an ester-based synthetic oil with another type of oil if I can avoid it.

I won't do extended oil change intervals so I'll buy whatever is on sale at WalMart the next time I change the oil.