Bad Oil

[BA80]

The biggest thing is these clutches are the weak point on the 11s, that's a well known fact.

On just about any other bike it probably wouldn't make a difference. I used to run whatever was on sale in my CX500 Honda and never had a problem.

The 11 has a TON more power with approximatly the same clutch setup. Any kind of friction modifier will cause problems.

[b.walker5]

Any kind of friction modifier will cause problems....

In a word, BS. Your need to rephrase that to say friction modifiers MAY cause problems. I've been using 'friction modified' oil for 12 years in my 11 and I've not had the clutch slip once in that time. (and i dont ride like a grandmother, and I'm often 2 up)

[BA80]

You might want to take a look at this Brian old friend. Read it slowly and try to retain at least SOME of it.

Here is some more valid information from the real world. Take as long as you need to read it thoroughly.

[b.walker5]

I've read them both before, and many others with similar spin. I actually do some research first before forming an opinion on most things Greg, and in this case I have my own experiences to relate to as well. I'm not saying that all these 'experts' are wrong, or that they dont expouse 'facts'. But sometimes the 'facts' do F all more than complicate what can be a fairly simple thing. All i'm saying is that choice of oil is a little like choice of tyres. Reputable branded products used by others without trouble aren't going to kill you, or your engine, and at the end of it all people will use what they're comfortable with. And, if 'friction modifiers' are so freaken bad for my clutch then why am I still on the same clutch 12 years on with no hint of slippage???? People get to anal about this stuff, In My Opinion, and listening to too many different (well meaning) opinions, supposedly based on fact, will just confuse the issue.

[BA80]

Well I guess I and pretty much the rest of the world will have to just agree to disagree with you.

Have a nice day.

[b.walker5]

Have you actually read that second article Greg?? He virtually saying the same thing I am.. that for the most part, in general use, it doesn't really matter.

It is commonly mis-stated that "SJ and SL oils have friction modifiers which will cause wet clutch slippage." In reality, all oils have friction modifiers, that's how they work. ZDDP itself is a friction modifier. The real issue is to avoid getting the friction so low, with very thin oils containing extra amounts of friction modifiers, that clutches will slip under normal use. Stay away from energy conserving oils and you should be fine, if your clutch is in good working order.

Now, armed with all this information, you are ready to make your choice between automotive oil and motorcycle oil. Either will work fine. Your motorcycle probably cannot tell any difference. There are many riders, the author included, who use nothing but good quality automotive motor oils. There also are many who use nothing but motorcycle oils. All indications are that both choices work equally well because motorcycle engines are designed so well that the oil really doesn't make any measurable difference. As long as it meets SG, SH, SJ, or SL service requirements.

Now, tell me what you're arguing about again?

[WMarshy]

...People get to anal about this stuff...

Yes, yes they do. On both sides too.

[b.walker5]

Hey, What can I say. I don't wear, or even have, an Anorak, and in this case I don't give a rats arse about how much 'science' there is on the subject. I've been riding and wrenching on bikes for near on 40 years and I've not had one single bad experience from using plain old auto oils in any of my bikes, and I've had plenty of different bikes. Sometimes all that's needed is a pair of balls big enough to make a decision one can live with, without being confused by the conflicting opinions of multitudes of 'well meaning experts'.

[BA80]

Yes I did Brian, but I retained the WHOLE of them. Not just a phrase here and there that SEEMED to back up what I was saying. But, I can do that too.

Another issue with using an automotive type oil in a motorcycle with a wet clutch is that many automotive oils have friction modifiers. Friction modifiers in automotive oils tend to provide increased frictional reduction

the new "energy-conserving" motor oils may have "friction modifiers" which will cause clutch slippage.

And what we were discussing was friction modifiers.

[b.walker5]

See above...

[b.walker5]

It's interesting that you chose to quote from the article produced by an Amsoil distributor, whereas my quotes were from a chemist with no vested interest in any particular product...

[BA80]

That statement is about a accurate as everything else that has come from you.

[b.walker5]

Whatever.... I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Goodnight.

[BA80]

My thoughts exactly......good morning.

[natemoen]

Whatever.... I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Goodnight.

Well, it was at least a reasonable discussion until the personal insults came out...