Final Drive Swap Poll

[Big Beadle]

Fd swap

Well its Sunday and, Both our ( ME&WIFE) B-day so me and the wife just got back in town from a few hundred mile ride after doing the FD swap, and man what a difference this swap makes,screw the 1/4 mile time, this bike is a rocket set up like this, it all fell into place. This XS rides like a dream no more screaming down the highway at 6K sounding like its going to blow to pieces. Now its nice and smooth plenty of power to run around town.It puts it in the sweet spot (IMHO) just plane nice!!!!!! The wife and I are not little people and no problems riding 2-up at all,even with cargo in the trunk,Not to sure on the mpg's yet but it seems a lot better, I only had to top off once. This 11 was a gas eating monster before, now its like it should be....( I THINK)? So it gets 3 thumbs up from me!! If you have any doubts on doing it (I DID) "JUST DO IT" you won't regret it i promise.YAMAHA should have offered this as an option,But i guess they were to busy looking for production bike of the year!! They did a good job building this machine but over looked the the FD in the process, If anyone has any Questions let me know and ill answer them the best i can. Best mod ever!!!!!!!!

[CaptonZap]

Damn, the price of 850 final drives is going to skyrocket!
Get 'em now, before the rush.
CZ

[Big Beadle]

Fd price

Your not kidding all the members who have done the swap are talking about it being cheap, I paid $19.99 on sleezebay and another $18 for S&H charges and just about $40 it cost me to get the FD to my front door, But the best $40 that i ever spent (IMHO) but it was money well spent!!!! Then another few dollars on hardware,silicone,synthetic,gear oil,and all the bells and whistles to get it done rite. In the end (BOTTOM DOLLAR) well worth every penny......Captonzap this FD swap will make the 11 that skyrocket so hang on, its a pulling machine

[3Phase]

Damn, the price of 850 final drives is going to skyrocket!
Get 'em now, before the rush.
CZ

Meh, that already happened. Some of the prices on eBay are still somewhat reasonable, some are ludicrous. One maroon wants $200 + $EEK! shipping and no returns for a Used 1980 850 FD.

[James England]

Great you love it. IMO, you're right... it was the 1/4 mile frenzy that resulted in the OEM drive being under-geared. I dread to think how much fuel that one decision made in 30 years of how many? XS1100's thrashing themselves at 60mph.

I love mine too. You're right..... grab a spare FD now whilst there's still chance

[jetmechmarty]

I dread to think how much fuel that one decision made in 30 years of how many? XS1100's thrashing themselves at 60mph.

No XS11 with stock FD is thrashing itself at 60 MPH! If you want something slow turning, buy a Harley!

Look, you like the swap, fine. I'm sure the bike can handle it. It IS NOT universally better. Higher gear = increased load, increased load=increased heat. In my case, and with many others, it would be a bad idea. As they say, YMMV. I'd hate to do a quick passing maneuver with that high gear. Let's roll on from 30 mph. I'll smoke you! You like it that way and that's great. You're happy, I'm happy.

What bothers me is there's all this information on the internet and some of it isn't good. Some newbie reads this and thinks their bike has to have this mod to make it last longer. I call BULL***T.

[Bonz]

If you can't tell, James England was saying that with a touch of British humor...

With that said, take what I am saying in the context of coming back with a good solid foundation that includes sarcasm and such to help get the facts across.

My response isn't at all about being happy, per se, in the context presented. It's about misconceived principles that most folks would beg greatly to differ on.

Slow turning? Hell, any 80's era 750 is turning about the same rpm as my Special at 60 mph. My 2001 ZRX 1200 turns an even 4000 rpm at 75 mph, must be stressing that engine too much as well with the low rpm. I better keep out of overdrive in cages too, don't want to pound the lower end.

I'll raise the BS flag in response to the fact it is assumed the lower rpm is increasing the load in any dire way on the engine. What a crock! In a steady state cruise at 60 mph, an FD swap engine will turn slower, burn less fuel, have less friction in the pistons, less pumping loss, less crankshaft revolutions in the oil sump slowing down the engine. How in any case is that increasing the load or lowering efficiency within the parameters we KNOW this engine was designed for?

It does take the same horsepower to move down the road at a given speed, so keep the engine somewhere in the normal powerband, and it's a non-starter, since 15 hp is 15hp (or whatever amount of power is needed) whether at 3600 rpm or at 4000 rpm. Tell me which 15 hp is the more efficient? I can take a wild guess, and it isn't the 15 hp being generated at 4000 rpm. It's a proven fact that an engine running a bit slower, with a larger throttle opening making the same hp will be more efficient than an engine going faster, with shorter gearing because of what is called throttling loss (manifold vacuum pulling "up" on the pistons in high rpm/low load situations, i.e. with the throttle not opened a lot), in addition to less internal friction, etc.

Oh goodie... Let's do a side by side roll on with basically identical bikes, other than gearing. Any FD swapped rider will shift down a gear and wax a stock FD bike. If the stock bike is downshifted to level the playing field, hope that bike doesn't hit a false neutral going into 5th gear at 8k rpm as the FD swapped bike holds 4th gear longer and leaves the stock bike behind in every imaginable way, except in dreams.

I don't spend most of my time passing so frantically or in riding where lugging the motor is an issue, and any rider worth a salt can slap a downshift in order to pull off a quick pass.

I am sure any newbie out there can read what has been posted here and elsewhere on the forum, and make a very informed decision as to what they might want to do on their bike. That includes the FD swap and any other work that is discussed on this forum.

Yeah, you make a good point about mis-information on the internet... Find it all the time myself.

[James England]

If you can't tell, James England was saying that with a touch of British humor...

Too subtle, it would appear! Sorry.....

[James England]

Some newbie reads this and thinks their bike has to have this mod to make it last longer. I call BULL***T.

Nobody has used them long enough to make claims about longevity. What people instantly notice is how happier the engine sounds and how much less stress it seems to be under at anything over 60mph. Usually, happy engines last longer....like people...

[jetmechmarty]

HBonser,

I guess we have to agree to disagree. There's no fixing that. We're too far away to have a race. So, there's no point in arguing. We'll stop before this internet banter degrades to ugliness. It's like internet politics, where brains go to die.

I'm still sure I'll smoke you

[jetmechmarty]

James and the rest.

I disagree with all due respect. No sense in carrying on. Any swapped FD bikes coming to the XSive Rider's Rally?

[Bonz]

Yeah, I think we are all more or less on the same page, just at different places on the page.

If you aren't 6'11" tall and 270 lb, you'll smoke me in any manner of drag race FD swap or no!

[cowboybob998]

If you can't tell, James England was saying that with a touch of British humor...

With that said, take what I am saying in the context of coming back with a good solid foundation that includes sarcasm and such to help get the facts across.

My response isn't at all about being happy, per se, in the context presented. It's about misconceived principles that most folks would beg greatly to differ on.

Slow turning? Hell, any 80's era 750 is turning about the same rpm as my Special at 60 mph. My 2001 ZRX 1200 turns an even 4000 rpm at 75 mph, must be stressing that engine too much as well with the low rpm. I better keep out of overdrive in cages too, don't want to pound the lower end.

I'll raise the BS flag in response to the fact it is assumed the lower rpm is increasing the load in any dire way on the engine. What a crock! In a steady state cruise at 60 mph, an FD swap engine will turn slower, burn less fuel, have less friction in the pistons, less pumping loss, less crankshaft revolutions in the oil sump slowing down the engine. How in any case is that increasing the load or lowering efficiency within the parameters we KNOW this engine was designed for?

It does take the same horsepower to move down the road at a given speed, so keep the engine somewhere in the normal powerband, and it's a non-starter, since 15 hp is 15hp (or whatever amount of power is needed) whether at 3600 rpm or at 4000 rpm. Tell me which 15 hp is the more efficient? I can take a wild guess, and it isn't the 15 hp being generated at 4000 rpm. It's a proven fact that an engine running a bit slower, with a larger throttle opening making the same hp will be more efficient than an engine going faster, with shorter gearing because of what is called throttling loss (manifold vacuum pulling "up" on the pistons in high rpm/low load situations, i.e. with the throttle not opened a lot), in addition to less internal friction, etc.

Oh goodie... Let's do a side by side roll on with basically identical bikes, other than gearing. Any FD swapped rider will shift down a gear and wax a stock FD bike. If the stock bike is downshifted to level the playing field, hope that bike doesn't hit a false neutral going into 5th gear at 8k rpm as the FD swapped bike holds 4th gear longer and leaves the stock bike behind in every imaginable way, except in dreams.

I don't spend most of my time passing so frantically or in riding where lugging the motor is an issue, and any rider worth a salt can slap a downshift in order to pull off a quick pass.

I am sure any newbie out there can read what has been posted here and elsewhere on the forum, and make a very informed decision as to what they might want to do on their bike. That includes the FD swap and any other work that is discussed on this forum.

Yeah, you make a good point about mis-information on the internet... Find it all the time myself.

I agree 100% with what you just said, i may be a newbe to this site but some of us newbes have been around for awhile and can make our own desisions based on what we know and think to be right, end of story.

[3Phase]

I want a 3.2 Final Drive Ratio

I have liked the 750/850 mod so far, mostly, but it's a little tall for the Standard with the 17" rear wheel.

Since the FD on Columbo began to show signs of impending doom I rode for another 4K miles and this later this week I'll be swapping it out for complete, low-mileage, stock XJ1100 drive train from middle drive to final drive.

Now that I'll have what basically amounts to a spare 750/850 FD I've been looking for most of the day at what it would take to swap the stock XS1100 pinion gear assembly into a 758/850 FD.

The XS/XJ1100 has a 33/10 ring/pinion with a 3.3:1 ratio
The XS750/850 has 32/11 ring/pinion with a 2.909:1 ratio

If Dr. Frankenstein is good and Igor find correct parts then Boris will have a 32/10 ring/pinion and a 3.2:1 ratio.

First I'll have to do an autopsy on the failing 750/850 FD to see if it can be rebuilt and if the XS1100 pinion can be made to match up to the 750/850 ring gear.

Second, there's that whole gear timing, lapping and setup issue for making a used hunting gearset into a working non-hunting gearset and almost everything I've found so far says it can't (shouldn't) be done.

Hopefully I can at least make the monster shamble across the road a few times before it tries to turn on me.

[cywelchjr]

No XS11 with stock FD is thrashing itself at 60 MPH! If you want something slow turning, buy a Harley!

Look, you like the swap, fine. I'm sure the bike can handle it. It IS NOT universally better. Higher gear = increased load, increased load=increased heat. In my case, and with many others, it would be a bad idea. As they say, YMMV. I'd hate to do a quick passing maneuver with that high gear. Let's roll on from 30 mph. I'll smoke you! You like it that way and that's great. You're happy, I'm happy.

What bothers me is there's all this information on the internet and some of it isn't good. Some newbie reads this and thinks their bike has to have this mod to make it last longer. I call BULL***T.

From 30? There would be no difference. Once you hit 2nd it's same same, it's just one gear lower for the swap. Except for the starting out in 1st, I can get the same gearing at any time by running 1 gear lower than normal. If I WANT to run the same RPM as before, I just stay in 4th gear. Sorry, higher gear does NOT mean higher load, you can't get more load than there is horsepower. According to XS 11 Heaven, the 750/850 FD ratio IS the ratio that was intended for the XS11 right up till the last moment, when they changed it to get the 1/4 bragging rights. If you look at every other bike designed for one portion of the market the 11 was intended for (the goldwing specifically) the FD mod puts the 11 into the same RPM range as they run, the XS11 with the stock fd was NOT designed for touring, and for YOU it's 100% right, the FD mod is exactly the wrong mod, but the mods you have made are the right ones. For someone who rides at a higher percentage of the time in 4th and 5th gear, the FD mod is something to give very serious consideration to.

I have to say, I don't see anybody saying anything about longer life, we are talking about feel, gas mileage, and driveability.