Top end query;

[jmnjrpa]

Hey TC,

Didn't mean to appear to be stepping on any toes here!
Now I think I'll shove a bundle of bottle rockets into my seat to get that extra boost of power .....they have a more consistent power output vs. the pulsing of roman candles!

Don't sweat it, as I've got real thick skin!

BTW-The Roman Candles give you that blast off effect, plus it's in TECHNICOLOR!

Most of what I suggested was just to give Ivan something to chew on, not that he needs anything. I figgered he was going to light Greg's candles for him!

For Peter, I feel his problem (three years-wow) almost has to be mechanical but not the wear kind (IE as in bearings, etc..) There is no way I can see him having some constant issue that can't be fixed. Kinked or plugged fuel line (delivery system) would be the first thing I would look for.

As for GURU, I don't think so, but thanks. I am an expert in my field (including mechanics) and have heavy knowledge in a lot of side trades, but I have a long way to go to know the ins and outs on these bikes. I know just enough electrical to be dangerous and the carburetion talent is iffy. Just glad to know there are members far more advanced in those areas.

[jmnjrpa]

Hey Jerry,

What filters or air box configuration are you running?

[MindWebs]

after this storm blow through tonight i'll hook up the spare TCI i picked up.
so i can test that theory on the way home in the morning. just to eliminate that from the posibilities list.

fuel or spark sound like a general consensus, there are only so many parts that could be an issue.

spark= pick-ups, tci, coils, wires, plug caps, plugs.
fuel= tank screens, petcocks, octy, carbs.

Spark
pick-ups-did fix allready, but i forgot to check gap. (all 4 fireing smoothly at idle)
tci-will test in morning
coils-just got green ones in the mail today
wires-hmm, i have to buy those yet...
plug caps- new 5K on there now, ordered non-resistor with coils.
plugs- new 200miles ago, will load new ones with new coils.

Fuel
Tank screens are in good repair
petcocks were just rebuilt1 year ago.
octy-is in question at the moment, it was rebuilt 1 year ago.
carbs-rebuilt 2 years ago, i have triple chack all float settings.
and they ARE clean and full functional. (don't ask how many times i've had them off)

i have no problem reving out to max rpm in all but 3th gear.
4th runs out but slowly and short of power.
i just run out of power in 5th.

irritating.... but i have become used to it.

No i'm not fond of the idea of tearing down engines.
mainly because i know i'd never get i back together.

i don't mind valve adjustments..
i just am not intrested in learning engine rebuilding.

Stock air box and a cleanable air filter

[Dragon Tamer]

Hey Webs!!

I just had a major spine fart (that is what happens when you hold them in, they travel up your spine and come out in your brain). I have here an OEM exhaust system, we could install it on your bike in fairly short order and see if it makes any kind of difference as that is what your carbs should be jetted for. If nothing else it would eliminate one more variable.

[jmnjrpa]

Jerry,

JAT- My bike will hit 90 in 3rd gear with the shorter gears. Redlined in 3rd should put you at 14% more (+/-20% using straight line math). Realistically you should hit 100+ in 3rd. I have no problem going clean thru 9000 RPM. If you get with DT and swap pipes have him follow you with a critical eye to the bikes track. Wouldn't hurt for him to give it a test ride.

[petejw]

i dont think it would be spark, if it was it would be missing
and breaking down, with the tci, ive only ever had 1 go faulty,
and it killed 2 cylinders when it did, not that it wouldnt hurt to swap
1 over for another 1 to try if you have a spare.

have you checked for any blockages in the
air box snorkel?

what type of fuel are you running, any ethanol blend
will make the bike run like a dog.

i can understand that it may take a bit to run redline
in top gear, but it should easily run into the red in third
so in third gear at wot what does it rev out too,
can you hear the mains kick in?
are the slides opening all the way (have you checked for holes
in the diaphram?)

[Dragon Tamer]

I have followed Webs on several occasions and have not seen any type of problem with how the bike tracks or handles, however I will pay closer attention the next time to make sure. I have not heard back from him as of yet on the exhaust system but I am sure that we will get together and try it out.

As far as the carbs, Webs is as good at the insides of carbs as anyone I have seen but the diaphrams may well bear another looking at. Air box, don't know on that one, it escaped my thought process and it may have escaped his also.

Ethanol, well now this is Wisconsin, one of the larger producers of ethanol, and also due to government mandates it is very difficult to find any kind of fuel around here that does not contain some percentage of the stuff in it. However since the Fire Dragon will easily pass 100mph in third gear and I am running the same type of fuel that Webs is (give or take a percentage) I am not at this point convinced that it is the problem. When we have been riding together we even fuel out of the same pump time to time so if it is fuel it must be how his bike is using it compared to mine. Believe me, we have been hashing this problem around for quite a while now and have not gotten anywhere near as far as I would like to have seen. His timing and advance curves are set up identical to mine and the carbs are so close as to be a moot point (with maybe the exception of the diaphrams). I don't really think that the exhaust would have that big an effect on the top end but I am not really an expert in that area but am very willing to experiment.

[petejw]

A restricted exhaust can cause
problems especially at the top end, in saying
that web said it was doing the same thing prior
to its fitment, the other thing that has already
been mentioned are the bob weights (mech Adv)
if they are seized or tight it wont adv fully, other
than what has already been mentioned im running
out of ideas.
DT, next time you ride behind him, check out
if theres any smoke coming from the exhaust.

[dbeardslee]

I think you're on to something with the exhaust as the most likely culprit. A recent thread discussed the purpose of the cross over pipe on stock exhausts, and the way tuned headers get around the sonic and thermal pulses. From what I've read, problems with an out of tune exhaust will show up most noticeably at higher rpms. Here's a thread that goes into the gory details. It starts out talking about v8's, but gets in to motorcycles farther down. JAT

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Hey y'all............remember me.........

Just kidding .......soaking up every word.

I love it when a good discussion comes together...........kinda difficult to get a lively one going lately though.

[MindWebs]

I tried the TCI and found only minor speed gain.

but the front end being lose would have taken me out if i could do more then 100.

i tore that down this morning and found tar coated bearings.
with some wear on the lower race.

cleaned repacked and re-assembled.
installed new ss brake lines at the same time.

next i'll be installing the green coils.
and removing the octy.

I will let you know if that helps.

exhaust system?
don't need no stinking pipes... just headers.

kidding.

i'll try these item first and if that doesn't fix it, then i WILL want to try that.

Thanks Dragon Tamer!

i'll work on it sunday and monday, i'll try to give you guys an update monday night.

Thanks Everyone!!!

[XSokieSPECIAL]

I took the bike out today to test TCs therory of running it on prime to see if that made any difference on top end.

Well, it really didn't. the only thing that made any difference was to run the RPMs up to about 8k between shifts. Got it up to 115 fairly easily but at high RPMs in 4th & 5th I was getting a spark knock/preignition rattle. Lean?

I played with a Harley on the way home ( kicked his a$$ ) and when I got here it sounds like theres a knock coming from the left side of the crank case at about 4k.

I am running regular gas and I'm hoping that is all it is. I'll let it cool off and we'll see. But it sounds like a rod bearing.......DAMMIT!

[dbeardslee]

Are you sure it's not the vacuum advance rattling around on that side, or possibly an exhaust rattle? I've had some real strange noises come out of mine before, and it's funny the way sounds travel around these motors. I use an automotive stethoscope to pinpoint them. JAT

[DiverRay]

XSokieSPECIAL said:

I am running regular gas and I'm hoping that is all it is.

These bikes are built to run on REGULAR gas! Try Chevron or Union 76 fuel, or NO MORE than midgrade from a lesser company. The problems I am reading, including the extra heat and noise at high RPM, is running lean, IMHO. As TC said, run it on prime for a test, and see if it still has problems. If it does, it's NOT the octy, but probably the jetting. I would go up one size on the main, and drop the needle back down to the middle position. The other thing you may want to do is raise the float about 1mm, say 27 instead of 28, to allow a little more fuel in the bowel. this will also make it run just a little richer in ALL RPM ranges.

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Ya know Doug, the first thing I did was check the exhaust to see if that was the problem and all was good there but I didn't think of the vacuum advance.

I just went out and unhooked the hose and started it up and the noise seems to be gone.

I'm gonna go fill up the half tank of regular with some premium and see if that doesn't do the trick 'cause it does kinda sound like a spark knock.

Thanks for reminding me what an idiot I am...LOL...

I guess that makes you my hero.