Top end query;

[MindWebs]

Update

sorry, again, i'm slow. (and sick..)

so i repaired the diaphrams with a very thin coat of RTV.
ALL were done identicly.

floats are set at 25.2mm (25.7 +- 1mm is factory)
Main jets drilled to 1.48mm (137.5, 1.375mm factory)
Needles are in middle slot

colortune results

Idle = good/blue
Mid = ok/blue
High = bad/orange-yellow

i was thinking drill the mains a size bigger 1.54-1.59mm
(whatever i can find for drill bits in that range)

then drop the needle down to lean the mid rpm range since it was very close to right with the 1.48mm jet.(but do i go 1 slot or 2?)

if anyone has any thoughts please let me know if i'm going in the right direction with these modifications.

Thanks all

[MindWebs]

newest test:

Floats = 25.2
Needles = middle notch (factory)
Pilot jet = 42.5 (Factory)
Main jets drilled to 1.57mm (drill bit measured with calipher)

Colortune Results:

Idle 1000 = Blue
Mid rpm= Blue
High(redline) = slightly blueish orange(getting close)

this is where i stop drilling the main.

Now i have to start leaning down idle and mid rpm ranges.

i'll be lowering the needles to try to accomplish this.

if that doesn't work then i will buy bigger pilot jets and smaller main jets
and retest all over again.

this bike has been the most dificult and time and money comsuming bike i have ever had. and i'm growing a distaste for it.
a HD bagger is starting to look like a good bike to me..
but i haven't completely lost my mind.....yet..

[petejw]

hey mindwebs,
ive never used a colour tune, so i cant really comment
on those results,
have you ridden the bike on the road after each of the carby changes?
to get a reading for the main jets you need the slides to fully open
the bike needs to be on the road or on a dyno under load at wot,
with the floats what i noticed that the richer you go, you dont need to richen the main jet, try putting the main jet back to stock the needle in the stock position and the pilot jet at stock. Also dont go to rich on the floats try setting them at 25.5mm. try setting the mixture screws at 1 and a quarter
turns out, road test the bike and make minor adjustments on the mixtures screws (quarter of a turn either way), then check the plugs to see how its running.

[dbeardslee]

You've got it blue at idle, and blue at mid-range - how's it running? As far as colortuning is concerned, what you describe is about what you want. Along the lines of what Pete's saying, you can't really trust colortune to give you accurate info on the upper ranges since you're checking it without a load on it - best indication there is performance and plug condition after you've put maybe 500-1000 miles on it. Also, when you're checking your floats don't forget to take them out and shake them - last week I was going around and around with a set of 78/79 carbs that just didn't want to act right. I finally picked up the floats and shook them immediately after a test run and I could hear gas sloshing around inside them. That being said, you're going about it in the right order - gotta have the mains right first, or everything else will be off. Then you move to fine tuning your slide needles, and then pilots and mixture adjustments. The proof of the pudding here is how it runs, so you need to take it out and see what's happening at different rpm ranges, unless you've got a dyno in your garage .

If it was me, I'd do the above with the floats set to the stock position of 25.7. Once you've got it pulling like it should in the upper and mid ranges, then you can tweak the floats and the mixture adjustments. What you don't want to do is compensate for a main or slide needle problem by adjusting the floats - it's going to make it harder to pinpoint your best settings on the carbs. One other note on your pilot jets - the 78's came with stock 45 pilots, and for some reason they dropped them to 42.5 on the 79's and and later. My experience on pilots has been that they don't have as much impact on performance as the mains and slide needles. You can generally tell when it's time to bump your pilots when you get to the point that you're going out maybe 4-6 turns on your mixture adjustments. Bigger pilots will drop that by several turns, so unless your out in the many-turn-range, I wouldn't mess with them. For sure I wouldn't mess with them until you've got the mains and slide needles right as they'll affect low rpm operation too. And one last note - something I learned in 20 years screwing around with microcomputers - when you're diagnosing a problem it's usually best to change one thing at a time so you can more accurately judge the impact of a particular change. When you start changing multiple variables at the same time it tends to muddy the water.

And lastly -

this bike has been the most dificult and time and money comsuming bike i have ever had. and i'm growing a distaste for it.

Don't get discouraged - those are the best kinds of problems to solve. Nothing beats the feeling you get when you finally overcome - and you will. You just have to play 'irresistible force' to your machines 'immovable object' . Like my favorite T-shirt says ...

[MindWebs]

Hmm, driving? Umm... ya... i hadn't actually tried driving it yet..
I’ve just been going off the color tune.

What your saying about the floats makes cents. i will adjust those to factory height of 25.7mm, increasing fuel level was an attempt at cheating the lean condition. it has seemed to fail anyway so it would be best to correct that and avoid more muddy water.

Idle has some signs of issues that may be attributed to the float height but i will double check it, I can close the pilot screws down completely and the bike idles fine..? (Gas level high enough to pull through the mains.?)

Before i started this project the pilot screws worked correctly and were at 2.5 turns out.

The reason i stopped drilling the jets bigger was due to:
color tune just starting to show blue at high rpm, and the fact that i was losing control of the pilot screws, they simply were overcome by the mains.

This is why i'm hoping i can lower the needles and regain control over low and mid rpm, these ranges have showed as being too rich.

Do i have a Dyno in the garage... i have several dinosaurs... does that count?
(75 kawy S1, 74 CB350)
So, no... i wish i did, but i wouldn't know how to run it if i did.

Also to throw a wrench in the works....
I have adjustable restrictors in the exhaust(manually moved)
I thought it best to get close to correct with these fully open, then start slowly closing them down and see what that does.

soo.... I’m probably doing this job the hardest way possible aren't I?

And in thinking about it i actually have more money in the S1.. so sorry. I lied.

Thanks again Pete and Dbeardslee!!!

i will be off work for 3 day's now (i work tonight yet) then i will go after the 11 and try to tune and then test drive as well.

Have a great independance day, try not to blow any fingers off!

Webs

[DGXSER]

Webs, more food for thought, these beast like some back pressure so yes, you threw alot of variables in the equation at one time here. I'd narrow in that exhaust a little and see how that helps.

[petejw]

usually if you can screw the mixture screws in all the
way and the engine still runs it means the pilot jet is to big,
but out of sync carbs can also cause it, can you screw them all in
and the bike still runs or is it just the 1 carb that does it?

id set your floats at 25.5 to start with, and put back your stock
main jets, with the above float setting your mixtures screws should
be set close to stock at 1 and a quarter turns out.

with that set up take the bike out for a solid ride, try adj the mixture screws
a quarter of a turn either way to see if there is any improvement.

with your exhaust remove any restrictions you have in the system,
which could cause it to run richer.

[XSokieSPECIAL]

I got the okie special all back together, - 1 exhaust stud, and ready to go.



I hope it stops raining soon. I want to give this E engine a good shakedown.

It sure sounds a lot more snarly that the G engine ever did.

[MindWebs]

update

ok...

This is the setup that acts the the best in the garage....
NO, i HAVEN'T DRIVEN IT YET.. and yes that has irritaded me as well.

family weekend/holiday, i didn't get more then 3 hours to work on it.

anyway...

7-3-10
25.8 mm floats
1.57mm Main jet size
Needles set to lowest riding postion (top notch)
42.5 pilot jet size
4 turns out on the pilot screws
60 degree angle on exhaust restrictors

no dead spot from idle to mid rpm.
blue from idle to 5800 rpm then starts leaning to a yellow blue mix

i'll try to get it back together in the next few days.
so.. hopefully it'll run out allright.

drive it like ya stole it

Webs

Later

[MindWebs]

yup i rode it....

good lord.... runs like crap at low rpm
flooding the hell out of it.

so i'm ordering the jets today....

we'll try this with real parts instaid of drill bits.


also... i got to thinking about it..

does anyone still have the factory screens installed above the float valves?
i installed inline filters so when i go into the carbs again i'll pull out those screens.

could be an issue??

the good news is that i'm moving in the right direction.
once i hit 4300 rpm, it's like someone flipped on the nitrious oxide
then i rapidly hit 90 mph and then it falls flat on it's face again.

i have iliminated any issue with the spark. so now i'm down to fuel.

it's simply running out of juice. i had forgotten about these sceens untill now..
maybe with the ethanol fuel you can't run that fine mesh..?

as i said, we'll get some real parts and start over.

but.. at least i AM getting closer.

thanks guys!!

Webs

[petejw]

i still think your running way to rich with
the main jets, try running the stock main jets
and see how it goes,
if you do a search on you tube, tc did a cpl of good
videos showing how the carb slides work under different loads,
might help explain why you cant tune the carbs with the
carb tune plug the way your doing it atm.

[MindWebs]

you are right that i have made a mess of things..

I am realizing that i am simply re-inventing the wheel.

so. i have a ride coming up in a few weeks so i have to stop goofing off and do it right.

i am finally following yours and dbeardslee's advice.

i ordered these parts and will set my floats correct and needles to middle notch, i'll also pull the float valve screens out, i have inline screens and good tank screens.

Mikuni Large
Round Main jets
4 - 145.0
4 - 147.5
4 - 150.0

Mikuni Pilot jet
4 - 45.0

restrictors to 50 degree pitch.

and it will become correct, when i learn to listen to wiser men then myself.

sound like a good plan?

Thanks guys!!

I'll let you know how it turned out when i get it all done.

[DGXSER]

Hey Webs, the only way they got wiser was by making the same mistakes your making, or being lucky enough to learn form watching someone else make them.

So don't beat yourself up to badly, you had fun trying.

[petejw]

its all fun and games,

dont go to big on your mains to start with,
and stick with the stock pilot jet, set your
floats slightly on the rich side 25.5, your mixture screw
settings should be close to stock at 1 and a quarter turns out.

i also wouldnt be using any restrictors in the exhaust
system.

[MindWebs]

no backpresure?

ok.. Petejw..

Why would you not use any restriction?

the only reason i'm trying to make it work is because i was told i needed to.
and that these bikes require it.

i do NOT have all the answers, let me know what your thinking.
I'm game for anything at this point.

Thanks