No Oil Pressure!!

[DGXSER]

Thanks!!

It is a fellow members bike and he may well be tearin into it as I type this. Hopefully he will find a missing C-clip and that will be it!

Thanks for all the ideas, and any more that come. I am hoping to get out toward Indy one day this week and maybe bring some tools and see what damage we can do if he has not gotten it already. But this is my week for travelin south instead of west, and next week looks like another week in the southern direction.

[trbig]

Head north... it's friggin hot in the south right now!


Tod

[Varnae]

the culprit revealed!

This looks a bit rather intimidating. I'm a little worried.



Well, maybe I can handle this. That first part wasn't so hard and I didn't break anything.



I think I might see the problem here



I'm pretty much positive that this is what it's supposed to look like



When I picked up the gear out of the bottom of the basket this is what it looked like



Thank God I had a spare engine down in the basement. I went down and pulled out the oil pump drive gear and the circlip that holds it in place and put them in the engine and with a lot of wiggling, got it all back together correctly. All the covers are on and torqued down (except the tranny pan which I'll do this evening). Then all I have to do is put the tank on and I'm all set. Hopefully I won't run out of sunlight this evening. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Matt, thanks for taking the phone call and all the advice.

Don, thanks for the pics and advice through pm's.

It turns out that this engine was involved in a front end collision (which I think was previously stated by Don). My suspicion is that it was hard enough of a collision that it knocked the circlip at the end completely off the shaft, slid the above gear over and the circlip that keeps the shaft from moving over as well. Then they ran the engine to test it and that's when the teeth got all chewed up. I simply pushed the first circlip back into place making sure I heard it click into its groove, put the washer, gear and washer back on, and put the end circlip back into place. Not to worry, I've changed the oil and even swapped out the tranny pan so there should be no metal remnants of this gear lurking around in the engine.

With any luck D.S. should be up and ready to rumble this evening! We'll see what happens.

[trbig]

I'm glad you got it figured out.. I was pretty sure it wasn't an oil pump problem. What ate the gear? Was it the oil pump gear, or the clutch basket gear? I don't think you could hurt the clutch basket gear. That bolt you see below and slightly left of the shaft the basket goes on backed out on me once. We were out on a ride a ways from home when I started hearing grinding sounds. By the time I had gotten back, that gear had completley eaten the head off that bolt and you couldn't even see any marks on the gear. Obviously you inspected the oil pump gear also?

The main thing to watch for on re-assembly is to make SURE the clutch basket gets installed completely. It's a bit tricky sometimes. Anyone who has installed a torque converter onto an automatic transmission can appreciate the similarities. It looks close.. but wiggle and fight with it.. wonder what's holding it up.. then CLUNK.. it fully seats.

Hope to hear of you getting it back on the road soon.


Tod

[trbig]

Also... you can see the notch in the case where that dowel pin goes that is on that gear shaft. Did you make sure the pin was still intact?

Tod

[Varnae]

You lost me on the second post trbig. I don't see what you're talking about. At this point I've got the thing all buttoned up and ready to go so it would be a major P.I.T.A. to tear it all apart again.

If you're talking about the 3rd pic and the shaft that the shaft that the gear rides on that drives the oil pump. There did not appear to be any dowel pin in there. I just put the circlip back on and left it at that.

[bikerphil]

There should be a pin in the shaft that fits into this slot, to keep this shaft from spinning....

[Varnae]

Honestly, I didn't check in there. I wasn't aware that I needed to and now that I got the clutch back on, I really don't wanna have to pull it back off again. It was a bear. I think I had to make up swear words cause I'd used all the ones I'd ever heard.

[trbig]

Honestly, it gets easier each time... to a point. lol. It's your choice to ride it the way it is or not. I was hoping you would have read the postings on this where it mentioned this pin. If that rod was able to slide far enough to the left side to push out the shift pawl on the other side, AND let that gear come off the shaft (The clutch basket should have kept that from doing that..), I'd say there's something wrong with that dowel pin.

I've been wrong before though and will be again.. and it is your choice.


Tod

[randy]

If it were my motor, I'd invest a couple more hours to make sure. If it blows up, you'll be doing alot more work later!

[trbig]

Well.. it is his choice. I'd hate for him to tear it back down to find out that the pin is fine.. and point a few of those new found cuss words my way. In Colorado, XJOK2Play's oil pump screws loosened off to where the oil pump wasn't in contact with that gear. We estimate that he rode the bike at LEAST 6 miles with absolutely no oil pressure. Wide open throttle resulted in barely 50mph.. so it was getting close to a siezing situation.. but there was some warning if you choose to just ride it. We got the oil pump re-installed later, and it runs beter than ever he says. So.. it's completely your decision on this.


Tod

[cywelchjr]

Also... you can see the notch in the case where that dowel pin goes that is on that gear shaft. Did you make sure the pin was still intact?

Tod

In the picture it looks like the pin is there in the shaft.

[DGXSER]

First of all, let me say congrats on jumping into that on your own. It can be intimidating especially wiht all the warnings about that starplate! Glad you went ahead and dug in and got it resolved....almost. Hmmm...Carl, I hate to say this but they have a point. I won't be back in town until Tuesday now, but I could bring some tools along if needed.

Having been there first hand and not emotionally involved in wanting to ride it NOW!!! I would say that the pin is most likely NOT there. If there is a pin on that shaft, and the slot is not a through slot such that the pin only goes in so far and can not slide all the way through the case, then I would guarantee that pin is not there. The shaft had slid out toward the shift pawl side easily 1/2" in my estimation. As Tod stated, with that pin in place it should not be able to slide that far! JMHO. If you trash this gear, it will be harder to find a replacement.

Ohhh...and someone please explain how in the he!! to add those circles and arrows to the pictures!!!! Would be so helpful so often and I have no clue what software is being used to do it!

[trbig]

That little gear isn't a problem.. I've got several laying around (Finding them is a different story).. it's the oil starvation issues I worry about with the bearings if that gear fails or becomes mis-aligned. I fear that as you shift gears and the shift forks are sliding back and forth on that rod, it may cause it to slide also. I also fear that rod if it starts to spin.. there's no bearings there, just that rod on the case, and could wallow out the hole eventually.

BUT.. I also fear making him tear that off again only to find it's fine... lol. As stated though.. a couple hours to make sure is pretty cheap insurance... but that's alot easier to say from this side of MY computer screen.


Tod

[bikerphil]

Ohhh...and someone please explain how in the he!! to add those circles and arrows to the pictures!!!! Would be so helpful so often and I have no clue what software is being used to do it!

First, copy the original pic. and save it in your computer. Open MS Paint, click edit, click paste from..., select the photo and open. There are tools over on the left side, draw, spray, lines, circles, etc. When finished, save the photo, then download with photobucket and paste in your post. After a few times of practice, it's pretty fast. You can also modify photos kinda like a cheapo version of Photoshop. HTH