Megasquirt EFI and Ignition Project

[81xsproject]

Mounting the VR sensor was one of the LONGEST ordeals. I spent ton of time looking for the 90 deg VR sensor. A 36 tooth wheel is going to be interesting. I wonder how many teeth one of the camshaft gears has...? I have seen on the MS forum where folks have used chain sprockets for their ford EDIS wheels. I thought that Stan used MS&E because the MS1 didn't support ignition without MS&E, but that Microsquirt was based on the MS2 chip which does.

[Shappers]

I thought that Stan used MS&E because the MS1 didn't support ignition without MS&E

You're right

I forgot that the original MS1 doesn't have the ignition code. I went with it originally to get the 12x12 tables and only later decided to add ignition to my MS1 v2.2 board. Stan used the MS1 v3.0 board which already had the ignition hardware, then used MS&E to get the ignition code (and 12x12)!

Just read that your MS2 board has all that goodness built in and ready to go

Just wanted to clear it up for people following along later.

[81xsproject]

3-2-1....We have ignition!!!

A few days ago, I got the fuel system installed. I was even able to utilize an old mod I discovered a couple years ago. My fuel pump has two inlets that fill the same chamber around the acual pump. I thought about blocking one, but I realized that if I had one line going to each side of the tank, it would keep fuel levels in the tank even once the fuel level fell below the saddle. However, I also needed an inlet for the return line and they all needed to be on at the same time. A few years back, I found that if you swap L and R petcock handle, it changes the function so that handle UP sends fuel to both the Prime and On outlets. Handle DOWN shuts off both outlets. Previously, I had both Prime ports blocked off. So, I re-opened one side and connected it to the return line from the pressure regulator. I also pulled off the petcock filters and now both lines to the fuel pump have inline filters. I will get some picks up soon.

Now for the best part. The last couple days I haven't success getting the bike to start for the first time. It would kind of just sputter a couple times while cranking. So, yesterday I talked to Stan and he told me that the default number (8 msec) for the 'cranking pulse' I had was too large and that he had experienced flooding from anything over 3 msec.

So, last night, not believing that it could be THAT simple. I went out to get some datalogs while cranking so that I could post them on the MS forum and get some help. Just before I did it I changed that cranking pulse to 3 msec. I was so unprepared, I had the garage door close. I hit the starter button and it gave a little back fire (probably from fuel in the exhaust from the night before). I thought, 'hmmm... it hasn't done that before. So, I changed the cranking pulse to 2.5 msec and IT STARTED right up.

I continued to tinker with it for a while and realized that I need to change the temp values in the 'After Start Enrichement' tables to be more reflective of head/cylinder temps versus coolant temps. Right now the table turns off all enrichement at 160F which would be fine for something watercooled, but fully warm head/cylinder temps will be more like 300F +. For this reason (I think) I had trouble getting it to start back up once it was partially warm.

The coolest part was cracking the throttle. Just a little twist and the engine would rev up SO hard and fast. It was amazing. My bike ran perfectly on the carbs, but it never reved like it did last night.

Here is the best part. As soon as my throttle cable gets here, I am going to take it for a ride. Just by riding it, the bike will use the O2 readings to slowly adjust the VE tables until the actual O2 reading are the same as those set in the 'Target AFR' table. Here's a blurb about it from the Megamanual;

Automatic mixture control (AMC) will work entirely internally, no laptop needs to be connected. AMC acts if:

the user has enabled it, and
MegaSquirt-II is operating in closed loop mode, and
the engine operating parameters (MAP and rpm) remains near a VE table vertex (near being user inputs). Then the program will average the ego correction for a user specified period and then update the VE table in RAM by some user specified portion of the amount of the correction.
As a result, the average closed loop correction should gradually decrease to zero. A separate loop will check and burn flash with the updated VE table, according to again specifiable user inputs.

Riding IS tuning. What a great combination.

Come on Motion Pro... I WANT MY CABLE!!

[DGXSER]

Love it when a plan falls apart....

with good results anyway. That is the kind of surprise you love to read about. "man am I screwed,now what to do" tweak something simple "WTF, AWESOME!!"

Sounds like you found the next holy grail to getting these odl machines to purr and then bite!

Congrats, and I hope your cable comes quickly!

[Shuriken]

Nice work.....

[dimulec]

Thank you for this post. It will make my job easier. I am planning to do the conversion and now collecting parts and experiences. The only thing I don't like is a size of MegaSquirt unit. I think I can make it 2-3 times smaller using their schematics/firmware.
But your timing wheel/reluctor setup is the best I've seen so far.

[81xsproject]

I made the mistake of designing/making the wheel before I had the VR sensor mounted. If I had it to do all over again, here's what I would do/advice to offer. Mount the VR sensor so that it leaves as much room as is possible then make the wheel to fit. The optimal size for the wheel is 4" in diameter. Another thing I would have done is to had the machinist turn down the thickness of the inner portion of the wheel where it doesn't need to be thick for magnatism. It isn't much, but considering it would have still cost the same $70 for an hour of his time, it would have cut down on the weight of the wheel. Lastly, I would have cut all the notches in the wheel to be 5 deg advanced. This would give you a 5 degree timing advance while cranking. After the motor is running, the 5 can be removed from the equation. But cranking timing is purely physical. Would be REALLY cool to have a slotted, adjustable reluctor wheel. I would like to a smaller design also. The Microsquirt (what Shapps is running) is nice and small, but I wanted the experience of building it and it was quite a bit more $. I expect to see your work, also.

[Shappers]

Congratulations!

Sounds like you have cracked it

I haven't used the Microsquirt (it wasn't out when I bought mine), I went with another design that someone came up with based on the MS1 v2.2 board. It is called the Mini-MS and is nice and compact and includes the relays and fuses in a nice watertight box. I don't think they are available anymore, but all the pcb files are still on the site if you wanted to get a board made dimulec?

[tw1980]

freekin cool !!

I like the idea of reducing the sensor wheel.(can we also reduce the weight of the alternator?)Also I think if you're not using the stock air box there is enough room behind the air cleaners for a NOS bottle A micro switch could sense full throttle and energize a valve through a handle bar switch to inject NOS into the manifold ports.
just a thought

[81xsproject]

Shappers, I remember reading about Mini-MS when I started looking into the whole FI thing. Since then I just though Micro WAS mini. We have now summed up all of our confusion

[Hawkins]

pre-fabbed MS unit

anyone used a pre-fabbed MS unit, like these guys sell?

https://efi4tuning.com/store.htm

[Pat Kelly]

I have watched all the FI threads and haven't noticed any conclusions on power or fuel consumpsion. It will ne nice to see the results.

I'm assuming it works so well that those that go the FI route are busy riding and have no time to tell us how it runs.

[Shappers]

Pat,

Take a look at Stans website HERE. Under his "Bottom line" heading you will find this information.

"How's it running? I'm glad you asked ... FANTASTIC. It starts easy, runs great, pulls hard."

"Wow, speaks for itself; that's 15 more miles per gallon, or a 46.8% improvement."

Sounds worthwhile doesn't it!


Hawkins, those ready to go kits are OK if you don't want to build up the board yourself, If you can afford it then go for it! It is quite a big box to find a space for though. If I was doing it again I would spend a bit more and buy a Microsquirt FI box.

[Hawkins]

If I go FI I'll have the microsquirt. It's small and weathertight. I'd love to do this mod, but don't have the time, patience or inclination to solder up a board. The great thing about megasquirt is the ability to get rid of the stock carbs and ignition, and I wouldn't miss either of them! I wonder if it's worth the expense for a 30 yr old bike, but on the other hand my engine is like new, and would probably come to life with fi and electronic ignition.

I see one shop carries the MS system, and timing wheels etc. It shouldn't be a huge job if you manage to avoid fabbing parts.

[Just In Case]

I'm pretty sure the Microsquirt is prebuilt. It's all surface mount and 4 layer and I doubt many hobby builders could solder them up with having issues.

The main sticking point seems to be access to a fuel pump, though if this one works, that opens up a big supply.