I'm really starting to wonder..........

[tarzan]

Hey Cobia,
I can get to your website with your link,but the pdfs wont open and I dont get an option to download or save them to my computer.Am I doing something wrong?

[CatatonicBug]

Hey Cobia,
I can get to your website with your link,but the pdfs wont open and I dont get an option to download or save them to my computer.Am I doing something wrong?

I just double checked it, and as soon as I click on the links, it immediately starts downloading the PDF files. It doesn't ask me what to do, it just starts downloading. Not sure what's going on when you try it.
Here they are separately if that helps.

Yamaha

Clymers

[Larrym]

Rocket science

QRfan,

I'm not a rocket scientist but I have been trained/experienced in the science that prevents rockets from exploding on the launch pad: Analytical troubleshooting and Failure Analysis. Turns out that the best tools to do this are built right into your face. Lots of other owners have tackled problems and done so successfully. Even the threads where things did not go well are a valuable resource.

As a troubleshooting tool, there is nothing better than the combination of a fully functional motorcycle as a reference and the know-how of the people who have dealt with any/all of the ways things can go wrong/fail on these bikes. It may be your first time through the gate on "diagnosis/repair" but just about everything from what tools to use and any "tricks" along the way can be found on the site here.

I am also a former mechanic with experience and formal training. It's one of my pet "peeves" when mechanics try to "mystify" the repair process and make it seem more complicated (Translation:$$$$) than it is. It is a "science" but a science that is learnable/doable by the regular guy. I myself have encountered "mechanics" whose "customer service" practices are taken straight out of the "Hostage Management" textbook.

If you smell a skunk in the woodpile here then don't poke around in there with a stick. Get your bike and back away carefully, very slowly.

[QRFan]

well...

The Bikes back together & hes making final adjustments on carbs.He said it took 3 of them to get the timing chain on.

It's one of my pet "peeves" when mechanics try to "mystify" the repair process and make it seem more complicated (Translation:$$$$) than it is. It is a "science" but a science that is learnable/doable by the regular guy. I myself have encountered "mechanics" whose "customer service" practices are taken straight out of the "Hostage Management" textbook

I feel like the hostage today .I think you pegged the nail on the head.: ) He's added a lot of extra charges & not what we agreed on but the expenses of fighting w/him or risking having the bike sabotaged are not worth it. So keep your fingers crossed for me. I'm going after the bike early next week. I hope after all the aggravation & expense the bike is at least fixed & fixed right. If it's not I guess I'll go from there. Regardless,I won't be recommending him to anyone. I'll leave it at that for now.

[boyat68]

QRFan:

That seems to be a very wise decision, No use in burning bridges if there is no scorched earth policy.

[madmax-im]

The Bikes back together & hes making final adjustments on carbs.He said it took 3 of them to get the timing chain on. I feel like the hostage today .I think you pegged the nail on the head.: ) He's added a lot of extra charges & not what we agreed on but the expenses of fighting w/him or risking having the bike sabotaged are not worth it. So keep your fingers crossed for me. I'm going after the bike early next week. I hope after all the aggravation & expense the bike is at least fixed & fixed right. If it's not I guess I'll go from there. Regardless,I won't be recommending him to anyone. I'll leave it at that for now.

Hell... I wouldnt pay him any more than was originally agreed upon...if it took extra work..its because he underestimated the job and now is trying to rip you off.I would seriously check that the bike is fixed before I paid him anything.In the future I would avoid this guy like the plaque.It took 3 of them to put on one timing chain...oh give me a break.If he had followed the suggestions you got from here it would not have taken the incompetance of 3 idiots...nor would it have taken as long...I would NOT pay him any extra $$$ YMMV.

[Axel]

Pick your battles, dont let them pick you

Or you could pay the money , bring the bike home, and consider it a lesson learned .
They, probably, will not change, no matter what you say or do .

[cywelchjr]

Hey Cobia,
I can get to your website with your link,but the pdfs wont open and I dont get an option to download or save them to my computer.Am I doing something wrong?

Just right click on the links and select "save target as" to directly download them. I just downloaded both of them this morning and they were fine. Turns out I already had the OEM one, but the third party manual is nice to have too.

[tarzan]

I finally got them downloaded.Sometimes I'm not the brightest bulb.
Thanks for the help guys.

[Ivan]

Hell... I wouldnt pay him any more than was originally agreed upon...if it took extra work..its because he underestimated the job and now is trying to rip you off.I would seriously check that the bike is fixed before I paid him anything.In the future I would avoid this guy like the plaque.It took 3 of them to put on one timing chain...oh give me a break.If he had followed the suggestions you got from here it would not have taken the incompetance of 3 idiots...nor would it have taken as long...I would NOT pay him any extra $$$ YMMV.

Most states have a 10% rule regarding estimates. They can not charge you any more than 10% over the original estimate, unless they get your ok on a revised estimate, then they can't go over 10% more than that. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

If you agreed on a price, and he did not revise that price and get your ok, especially if your first estimate was written down (always a good idea), you might be able to invoke that law if it exists where you live.

[Guy_b_g]

How the heck would 3 sets of hands even fit in the work area of a timing chain? I call BS on this one.

Hope they did a good job for you.

Good luck.

[QRFan]

one more question

if i allowed 225$ labor to fix front callipers(install new gaskets & clean up pistons ) & replace old starter button w/ a new one... Would that be unreasonable or generous. He wants 625 & has sharpened his pencil to justify it.He gets really loud & tries to out talk & intimidate instead of a civil discussion ,so I want to get my thoughts down on paper.I don't want to cheat anyone .. Any mechanics here should have an idea how long it takes.Also if I'm gettin off topic someone let me know & i'll move my questions.

[Larrym]

What is best?

QRfan,

Prob'ly just me, but I'm still amazed that you actually found a shop that would work on your bike. In my area there's NObody who'll even touch my bike cause it's "beyond the service" limit. (sigh..)

If there were a shop in my area I would contact them and get an over the phone estimate for the exact same procedures you've had done. This would be a genuine estimate from a true service provider. Not just a "shooting from the hip" guesstimate. Possible that on Monday another owner who has an "XS1100 friendly" shop in their area might help.

Overall though, dealing with your repair "guy" as if he were a reasonable/rational and willing to be "fair" about this whole thing is a 50/50 shot. (Basic "games theory" ) Be aware that what you may be viewing as a meeting where "discussion/negotiation" is supposed to take place is from his position just an opportunity for him to present his ultimatums. Bullies are not generally convinced by facts and even presenting the notion of a "fair comparison" might/might not provoke him into further "misdeeds."

Going "toe to toe" with this dude has it's risks and in the end can result where you say " You charged too much." and he replies, "No, I didn't." Basic disagreement between two parties which can be "decided" by the court system. (Been there...done that..Yes, I did win.) LOTs of hassle and BS. I tell you this as someone who has also been a trained/experienced "consumer Advocate." If you decide to be adversarial with this guy he's NOT gonna play by the rules.

(Groan....It's all about what's best for the Bike.)

[madmax-im]

QRfan...this guy is BS run away as soon as you can and dont go back....if you need further help there are plenty of XSives here who will help you...ask me how I know...I wouldnt have my '82 Maxim where it is today if it werent for the fine help I got from the XSives here at Ch.11.
As for finding a reputable repair shop that will work on these bikes...well that is a shot in the dark...but there are still a few that will.I seem to remember one in Ohio but I cant recall where or who..I'll do some searching and see if I can come up with a name.In my area there is a shop that will work on these bikes and they are very very good.Their shop labor rate is $50/hour!And they really know all the older bikesOk I remember the town but not the name of the shop...its in Alliance Ohio.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey QRfan,

Like Larry said, probably best to Pay your Dues and get your bike out of there, so no damage could be done, accidental or on purpose!

Prom will probably tell you that at $50.00 hr bike mech rates minimum, pulling the cams and head, doing valve job, ring job, installing again, timing, plus the brake work, etc., that's about 12 hours worth. Although it's a fair amount of $$, I don't think it's unreasonable at that rate for what was done.

Hell, I just had the batteries replaced in my Hyundai SantaFe's remove keyless devices....they have to be reprogrammed when replaced, and they charged me friggin' $40.00! The batteries are only a few bucks each, but the proprietary reprogramming of the security code and frequency is what I don't have the ability to do, so I have to PAY!!

I did my own timing belt change on same vehicle recently, was told it would have been $800+ plus parts!! I bought the $75.00 belt and was able to do it myself, took several hours....6+ to do it, but I was able to. But if I hadn't, I would have had to PAY!

Best to just learn from this experience, pay and get your bike back, and then do the rest of any service/repairs you need yourself, with our guidance!
T.C.