I'm really starting to wonder..........

[QRFan]

I know that I am no mechanic,but I'm getting really frustrated.Everyone here has given me some very good advice & tech tips. I've discussed these ideas w/ the guy working on my bike & everytime i bring one of his replies back here,I get a good sane answer from you guys.I really appreciate your patience btw...... I'm sure it looks like I'm arguing when in fact I am looking for an answer to respond with ,when he makes similar comments. Anyhow, the guy has been fighting the timing chain for 5 days because he hasn't taken the master link loose... When i tried to talk to him last fri he blew a gasket & asked if i was trying to tell him how to time my bike. : ) So I waited & Today i told him about the master link idea, He said no ,oh no, i would never take the master link lose.I'm assuming that he's making this a heck of a lot harder than it has to be ? & wondering if I shouldn't pay the guy for his time so far & try to finish my bike myself? I try really hard not to tell someone how to do their job .In this case I think he's just so arrogant that he won't listen to anyone or look in the manual except for specs. I told him about the spooge hole..... he clamped down on the brake line.squeezed the brake & said that proved the hole wasn't blocked,,,,,, I thought the prob w/ spooge hole caused it to not release.....??? Guess I'm just venting a bit but am I just being a pain in the @ss or am I right to think I've got the wrong person on this bike?

[XSPastor]

If he won't listen to you then, in my opinion, you've got the wrong guy working on your bike. FIVE DAYS working on the timing chain??? That's ridiculous. Yes, the spooge hole is the hole through which the brake fluid returns to the master cylinder so it has to do with the brakes releasing. Get your bike back and we'll talk you through it. If he's almost done, I guess you could let him finish but I sure wouldn't take it back there.

[The Lorax]

Something to remember, this cat works for you, not the other way around. if he thinks he knows it all, he probably doesn't know half what he thinks he knows. this stuff isn't rocket science, it really isn't that difficult. if you want to finish it yourself, do it (just make sure you read the service manual for each step, maybe even read it two or three times). I did a complete rebuild on mine, and I'm an idiot! but I do know how to read, and I have relatively good hands. if you want to salvage this relationship with the mechanic, talk with him and let him know that you're not trying to tell him how to do his job, merely trying to help him see alternative possibilities on getting this silly thing put together properly. If he's even a remotely reasonable individual, he'll listen and perhaps the two of you can work together to get this beast put back in one piece. (hell, next time you might be able to make one of the SWOXS rides...the more, the merrier) whatever needs done, I feel confident you will find a way to make it happen, either by working with your mechanic or without him. If you end up doing it yourself, read some of the threads on whichever issue you are trying to deal with, read the manual, ask alot of questions, no one minds answering a querey or two. we are all willing to help. that's all I got for now, have a nice day and ride safe

[oldyam80sg]

I would have taken my bike that day.Don't leave it there.This site will help you with the problems.Beside every day that the bike is in the shop it is costing you money!

[bikerphil]

The new timing chains use a master link which is to be riveted (permanently) on with a riveting tool after it is placed around the crankshaft. If you are trying to put in a one piece chain, you gotta split the cases to get it over to the center of the crankshaft. The "spooge" hole is for releasing the pressure after releasing the lever. Gotta clean it out with a thin wire or such. If the brakes are still not releasing after cleaning the spooge hole, the caliper pistons must be removed and thoroughly cleaned including behind the o-ring type seal which sits in a groove in the piston wall. Gook builds up behind there which will cause the o-ring type seal to expand outward. I know some mechanics will get ticked if you are trying to tell them how to do their job, but it's probably a combination of aggravation and lack of experience on his end. With a manual, he should have been able to figure it out by now. Good luck!

[Montreux_Blue]

This is why I have learned how to work on cars and now bikes. Forums like this that have people with a wealth of knowledge and service manuals are a life and $$$ saver! I personally would be afraid to ride it home after he has spent that much time on it.

[Axel]

sounds familiar

Dude. I've taken my ride to mechanic friends who are supposed to know what they are doing but rarely do. I spent some money but not much was fixed . I had to bite the bullet and start wrenching myself . Today I have one mech who was a yamaha guy who I trust but he advises me and I do the work . Once you do it ,you can advise the next guy . Its kool . No one treats your bike like you would want but you . This site rocks .

[QRFan]

this stuff isn't rocket science, it really isn't that difficult

It's funny you said that Lorax . When I spoke w/ the guy today he said " this stuff really is rocket science" He would curse yamaha one min & then brag on their precision the next. I felt like he was blowing smoke......getting ready to try & justify the extra cost for labor that I feel sure he's going to throw at me lmao Ok,so I was reading on that website for small motors.... My original timing chain has no master link ?Did I read that right ? If thats the case ,whats the trick to gettin that chain to stay on & hold the crank in place until the cam parts &tensioner are put back in place,,,,, & should i be replacing the timing chain........

[Ivan]

Well, rocket science put a man on the moon with less computer power than a modern day cell phone, or even one from 1980 (remember those? )

If the tech gets lippy, you can be really nice to him and say "Just return it to the condition it was in when I brought it and I will remove it from the premises, promptly if you please." If there is no repair, then there will be no payment. Unfortunately Doctors are the only ones that can charge for NOT fixing something. They also get to bury their mistakes.

All that being said, the life of a tech isn't easy. Every job has a disgruntled customer. No one likes to have their stuff broke down, so 90% of customers are rude, and the other 10% are rude and complain about being over charged. I have been there, and it is tough.

However, changing a cam chain shouldn't be that big of a deal. The original ones had no master link, that is true. It would be much easier to replace it with one that can be riveted back together. TBH, I would think I could replace one in two hours or less on my first time through.

Now, here is what I bet really happened. He lined up the crank wrong, and is waiting on your new intake valves and gasket set. Probably trying to work in some extra jobs to help offset the expense. So, he is pissy, loosing money, and all around in a bad mood, and probably has six other customers that are wanting the hurry up done too.

I am sorry about all this. I see it from both sides, and it brings back too many memories. Makes me even more happy that I took to machining. I like building stuff rather than fixing.

[trbig]

??? Not really understanding the question. Put the crank in time. Slide a cam through the chain with the sprocket loose. Put the cam close to time and tighten down that set of cam caps.(Put some oil on the cam caps and journals first) Slide the other cam in and do the same thing. After the caps are tight, turn the cams slightly to get them exactly to time.

You'll have to play with the sprockets a bit here next to get the holes lined up to put the shouldered screws in them, but get the chain on the sprockets, then stick them up on the cam shoulders they fit onto, and finger tighten one screw on each cam. Take a light and shine down the center of your motor and look to see that the chain is in fact around the crank sprocket. If the bike is on the center stand, you shouldn't have any problems.

There are more steps to complete, but my point is that it's a pretty simple process. There are torques for the caps and sprockets you'll need.. and would hope you consult a manual before doing this.

I don't want to talk trash about your choice of mechanics... but most people on here with little to no mechanical knowledge can get some cams in and timed with the tensioner on within an hour easily by following the manual. This includes YOU. As said.. you'll appreciate the bike more also when you've got some sweat equity into it.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Tod and the others have pretty much covered it. I hope that he isn't trying to put the cam/chain in position with the sprockets still on the cams? Secondly, I hope he has the tensioner removed, this provides more slack as well. It just takes a little fiddling with the sprockets to get the bolt holes to line up before sliding both the sprockets with the chain on them up onto the shoulder of the cams. They won't necessarily be EXACTLY lined up at dots perfectly at 12 O'clock, but should NOT be a tooth off!! The cams have hex shaped sections on the shafts to allow the use of a wrench to slightly turn them for positioning and lining up.

Also, when putting them in, they will press against a valve and so won't sit flat when trying to put the bearing caps on. I had to put 4 of the 5 caps on and get the nuts started, and GENTLY tighten the nuts evenly to slowly depress the cam down against the valve/spring far enough to allow the positioning of the 5th bearing cap far enough down to allow room to get the lock washer and nut a couple of turns onto the stud, then continued tightening the nuts until the cam is EVENLY depressed into the bearing journals of the head.

So....not sure what part of putting the cam chain and sprockets on that is causing him so much trouble, hopefully you can print these replies out for him to review to find out where he's going WRONG with his approach!
T.C.

[TADracer]

QRFan, this stuff IS NOT rocket science but more like following some instructions and using some common sense. Sounds to me like it is about time to get yourself a manual, some tools, dive in and get your hands oily.

Besides, when you do the job yourself you will come away with some usefull experience and a lasting feeling of accomplishment when you are finished.

[kelliott]

qr i have an computer version of the manual if you would like it or anybody eles want it please let me know

[CatatonicBug]

I have it posted here on my website as well. Free download for either the original Yamaha one or the Clymer one.

[CatatonicBug]

QRFan, this stuff IS NOT rocket science but more like following some instructions and using some common sense. Sounds to me like it is about time to get yourself a manual, some tools, dive in and get your hands oily.

Besides, when you do the job yourself you will come away with some usefull experience and a lasting feeling of accomplishment when you are finished.

I agree completely! It may sound daunting to jump in and start working on something that you've never seen before, but this stuff is all mechanical. No fancy computer parts, and nothing that can't be replaced or repaired. The hardest part for me is figuring out what all the parts are called. The exploded parts diagrams help with that. Take it slow, and read everything you can get your eyes on that tells you about the thing you are working on at the moment. It may take you a bit longer than a professional (not so sure of that with your pro...), but you will have a huge satisfaction once you are done, along with knowing a heck of a lot more about your bike than you did when you started!